1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Japanese
  4. >
  5. "I do not want to swim in the…

"I do not want to swim in the sea in winter."

Translation:冬に海で泳ぎたくないです。

June 4, 2017

60 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ngochung72

What is たくmeans here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jessefitzgerald

泳ぎたい (およぎたい) means "(I) want to swim". When made into negative form, たい becomes たくない (plain form) or たくありません (more polite) 泳ぎたくない (およぎたくない)and 泳ぎたくありません (およぎたくありません) both mean "(I) do not want to swim" The subject is determined by context or indicated by particles. "I" applies in this specific example.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/James151779

So, if I understand correctly, without the たく in there, it would have translated as "I do not swim in the sea in the winter." I.e., a statement of fact rather than desire.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jessefitzgerald

Yes, that's basically correct. However, the conjugation changes slightly. -たく is the negative form of the -たい conjugation that indicates desire.

ふゆに うみで およぎ ありません is NOT a properly conjugated sentence.

If you're talking about a factual statement involving the verb, there are various statements you could use depending on the politeness or formality required.

The subject (I, he, she, you, whatever) depends on context - I will use "I" below to match the sentence people are commenting on from Duolingo.

冬に海で泳ぎません。 ふゆに うみで およぎません。 I do not swim in the sea in winter. (semi-polite)

冬に海で泳がない。 ふゆに うみで およがない。 I do not swim in the sea in winter. (not polite, casual)

You can further change politeness using keigo variants:

冬に海でお泳ぎになりません。 ふゆに うみで お およぎ に なりません。 (You) don't swim in the sea in winter. (speaking about someone else, elevates their rank compared to you)

冬に海でお泳ぎしません。 ふゆに うみで お およぎ しません。 I do not swim in the sea in winter. (speaking about you, humbles yourself compared to the speaker.)

You should notice a number of fairly logical commonalities between these conjugations - Japanese is fairly regular and logical about how things are conjugated, but there are a number of irregular things, too.

Hope that helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/James151779

It does help. Thanks... jmk


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EricPooley

Does that mean that verb-tai is an i-adjective form?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

Effectively yes. It follows all the i-adjective conjugations.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisLucia6

i would like to know as well


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jessefitzgerald

In prior lessons, "in winter" would have been translated as 冬は, but in this example, 冬に is used. Prior examples typically have not accepted XXに as correct "in XX" translations. Ensuring this is made consistent would be helpful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

冬 can have a に or without. They are equivalent. は is used for stressing or makes a phrase the topic. So for vatiations: 冬・冬に・冬は・冬には


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

冬は (fuyu wa) was accepted for me. Just have to keep submitting error reports to get all the correct variations accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kelsi602

冬 is "winter". The hiragana here are "particles" they serve a grammatical purpose. 冬は indicates that winter is the subject of the sentence (e.g., 冬は来る for "Winter is coming"). 冬に means "in winter" , not just winter. The particle に is used for "in" when it relates to time. It is also used to indicate the destination "to" in direction lessons (covered later) but would not be used for "in" the sea.

冬は and 冬に are not equivalent. This is not a mistake (although DL could work on how they introduce Japanese grammar). Japanese frequently drops the subject (as the romance languages do), the subject will be assumed to be I/you/we/them unless specified so these are different sentences with different meanings:

冬は来る for "Winter is coming"

「私は」冬に来る for "[I'm] coming in Winter"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KiritsuguZFC

は does not (necessarily) indicate that it is the subject of the sentence, it indicates that it is the topic (which can be different).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kelsi602

Sorry, I have may mixed up the particles は and が. This distinction still confuses me sometimes. They serve much more similar purposes than は and に. I hope this explanation (and the examples) are sufficient to show the difference between は and に (even if my terminology isn't "textbook").

In terms of SOV I think 冬は (or 冬が) is a "subject" and 冬に is an "object", although Western grammatical concepts do not map neatly to Japanese as you point out.

I think this issue comes from an ambiguous translation into English. I don't think this is an error in the Japanese but rather teething issues with teaching the grammatical differences.

冬に... is ..."in winter"

冬は... is "During winter..." when used in previous examples:

冬は寒いです would be "Winter is cold" or "During winter it is cold". Of course, the meaning (in this example) is equivalent to "It is cold in Winter" but the grammar is different and not appropriate for the above question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tadpole17

冬はさむいです is "as for winter, it is cold" - topic marker, not subject... 冬にさむいです "it is cold in winter."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

冬に寒いです is not grammatically correct. 寒い describes 冬 so it should be は or が instead of に.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jessefitzgerald

Thank you for the kind attempt at more detailed explanation. I am aware of those details. My initial discussion comment was trying to highlight that under the right circumstances, either can be acceptable - due to what KiritsuguZFC points out.

「冬は海で泳ぎたくないです。」could be seen as something like "As for winter, [I] don't want to swim in the sea." The topic is winter, but the (unsaid) subject is yourself.

In prior lessons, sentences like「冬は学校に行きます」are translated as "I go to school in winter." (which is fine). When translating in reverse, many of these examples have not accepted the types of translations you suggest. (Hence this comment.)

While I have added individual suggestions for acceptable answers in the applicable questions, I also like to comment when it appears to be a more consistent issue across questions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kelsi602

ふゆはうみでおよぎたくありません would translate to "Winter does not want to swim in the sea".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LordOfTheAndain

No, the ending -tai/-takunai is only used to express the speakers preference. It always means "I (don't) want to".

It would rather be something along the lines of "In the case of winter, I don't want to swim in the sea." (Or "Speaking of..." or "Regarding...") Not quite the same as "During...", which requires the ni (or ni wa).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fuzzyBSc

Would swapping で and に be actually wrong or a change in emphasis? Ie に on the ocean and で on winter.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jessefitzgerald

FWIW, my native-speaking friend says that 「冬で」is simply not correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LordOfTheAndain

I believe umi ni would be "to the ocean", since the verb is one of motion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/epingchris

umi: ume is plum :p

You're correct that 泳ぐ involves motion, and 海に泳ぐwould theoretically mean something like "swim to the ocean"...which doesn't make much sense though, which is why it's not really used (unless you're near the river mouth, but even then I think you'd say "海(の方)へ泳ぐ")

You can, however, say 海に泳ぎに行く (I'm going to the sea to swim)

Source (in Japanese unfortunately): https://sp.okwave.jp/qa/q6963432.html


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tadpole17

Instead of たくありません can you use たくないです? It is counted as wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jessefitzgerald

「冬に海で泳ぎたくないです」is indeed an acceptable way to write "I do not want to swim in the sea in winter." Please add it as a suggested correct answer if you haven't already.

It seems like textbooks and teaching defaults to -くありません because it is more formal, but everyday teineigo uses -くないです far more frequently. Using ありません sounds overly formal. (I confirmed this reply as being generally correct with my native speaker friend.)

My friend cautions me that 泳ぎたくないです still sounds fairly 'strong' and forceful, despite using です to soften the 泳ぎたくない.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_Scott

冬に海で泳ぎたくないです。sigh.... sigh. Big sigh.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/horizon241

冬に海で泳ぎたくありません。


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdonisCham1

Ni and de trip me up. Mataku


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tate1650

How do you distinguish between when to use で and when to use に?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LordOfTheAndain

The general rule of thumb is to use に for time and for place of existance (e g before います and あります, but also 住んでいます and others), but use で for place of action. (There are some finer points and special cases, but that is the basic idea.)

Beyond that, に is also used to indicate movement (mostly "to, into", but also "from"), in which case it is comparable to へ and から, respectively, but で can not be used; to indicate the indirect object; to indicate the agent of a passive verb; and a few other ways. Similarily, で is used to indicate -- among other things -- implement, material and reason, none of which に can be used for.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BoldyTheBo

Is it possible to instead say ふゆのうみで ? In the same manner in which you might say 冬の山にのぼるのがあぶないです。


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

冬の山 (Winter mountain) sounds very poetic to me. Doesn't sound natural. "I do not want to swim in the winter sea."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

Nope "winter sea" doesn't seem to work in English—a rarity.

I recall mountaineering magazines mixing 冬山 (e.g., 冬山登山) and 冬の山, but will have to google both. (Don't hold your breath.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

Eminently possible. Desirable even.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ngochung72

What is たくmeans here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jessefitzgerald

Japanese verb conjugations change based on positive or negative use. This is an example of negative use conjugation.

公園へ行きたいです (こうえんへいきたいです)I want to go to the park 仕事へ行きたくないです (しごとへいきたくないです)I do not want to go to work.

Verb conjugations that express desire end in -たい -tai. When used in a negative fashion (don't want to), the -たい -tai turns into -たく -taku, and you add ない nai.

You see similar changes in ーい adjectives: 寒い samui - cold 寒くない samuku nai - not cold

The addition of です desu is a little more polite. 古いです furui desu - old (inanimate things) 古くないです furuku nai desu. - not old (inanimate things)

Hope that helps!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nathanleiby

I switched the articles "de" and "ni" ... I thought "de" meant during so I associated that with "in the winter". But twas incorrect :) ... Would anyone be able to help translate why that's wrong, please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jessefitzgerald

Pardon my simplification - I hope this explains a little.

に is used for time context (at five pm) and other things (direction, others). で is used for positional context for action (I swam in/at the pool) or identifying means by which something happens (I went by car)

公園で散歩しました I walked in the park, I took a walk in the park. 午後5時に食べる I (will) eat at 5pm. 車でと京へ行きました I went to Tokyo by car. 大阪に行きたい I want to go to Osaka. (へ can also be used in this instance - there are differences implied in choosing one particle over the other)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jessefitzgerald

For some additional detail and explanation of に, で, and others: https://goo.gl/Msr52i


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/japanesekriggs

I thought i could write fuyu without the ni. We see that for kyou and such things (though kyou is admittedly kyou wa, not kyou ni). For seasons, the ni is required?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

I believe fuyu requires a particle.

From Maggie-sensei:

★ You don’t usually need the particle に ( = ni) with the followings time words because they already function as an adverb.

  • 今 = ima = now

  • 今日 = kyou = today

  • 今朝 = kesa = this morning

  • 今晩 = konban = tonight

  • 今週 = konshuu = this week

  • 今月 = kongetsu = this month

  • 今年 = kotoshi = this year

  • 明日 = ashita = tomorrow

  • 明後日 = asatte = the day after tomorrow

  • 来週 = raishuu = next week

  • 再来週 = saraishuu = in two weeks

  • 昨日 = kinou = yesterday

  • 昨夜 = sakuya = last night

  • 昨晩 = sakuban= last night

  • 一昨日 = ototoi = the day before yesterday

  • 去年 = kyonen = last year

  • 一昨年 = ototoshi = two years ago

  • 毎日 = mainichi = everyday

  • 毎朝 = maiasa = every morning

  • 毎晩 = maiban = every night

  • この間 = kono aida = the other day

  • 先日 = senjitsu = the other day

It might not be a complete list, but seasons are not included.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

Both 冬 and 冬に are correct. に is optional not required. The list from Maggie-sensei is correct, they are required not to be followed by に (when に would mark the time of an action).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

Do you have any more information about why it would be optional? It sounds wrong to my ear to not use a particle.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

Quickly searched but I don't find discussions around. Maybe send you some example titles I could find:

この冬カップルで行きたい!日本全県おすすめデートスポット厳選!

日本は来年の冬本当に寒くなりそうです。

Personally my thought is that - if 冬に and 冬は are both OK, then why not 冬 or 冬には?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

Thanks for the examples!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HalfPurr

Is たく(では)ありません also correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

たく is an adverb so it cannot follow では. Must be a noun equivalent before では.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HalfPurr

Thanks a lot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

Try 冬海 or 冬の海. The latter is the title of a 琴 piece.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/asaph.neig

Why is it that the last question "I want to go to Australie in the summer" did not require a "Ni" after "Summer" and this one requiers "Ni" after "Winter"??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

It is not required. に is optional for seasons.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galilao

冬に海で泳ぎたくないです。is what I wrote, but the system said it was wrong. Looks like a bug in the program.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom26824

Why is に being used after 冬 when, until now, Duo has always either left the particle blank or used は?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fernanor

Whats wrong with 「冬に海で泳ぎたくない」. Is the declarative necessary here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LordOfTheAndain

If by "declarative" you mean です, its function is to make the statement of your preference a little more polite and less harsh. You won't sound ungrammatical if you leave it out, but you will sound rude.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joshua894773

Is it wrong to use 冬には here?

Learn Japanese in just 5 minutes a day. For free.