"おふろではありません。"

Translation:It is not a bathtub.

June 6, 2017

73 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/gwhiteside

"Let's go to the beach."

"I'll get my soap!"

"It is not a bathtub."

June 17, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/FAlter5

You never take soap into a Japanese bathtub. You wash and shower before you enter. The water is not changed between the family members, all bath in the same water, so only after they are already clean. But お風呂 means the bath, not explicitely only the bathtub, it can mean a bit more. You would never translate お風呂が好き as "I like the bathtub", but more as" I like bathing". But the bathroom is the lit. "bathplace" お風呂場 and there is no toilet in the bathroom (this is in another room which it is called お手洗い or トイレ).

Edit: What I wanted to say before I got lost is that you would not take soap into the bathTUB, but to the bath. So in the context of the Japanese お風呂 it might be ok to speak about soap, but only when you do not translate it as bathTUB. Soap in the bathtub is a no-go. The one using the same water after you would see the foam and think that you washed in the bathTUB, which means you would have gone into it while dirty, so the water is dirty now.

February 19, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/rioscac

What's the difference between は and では?

June 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/KiritsuguZFC

ではありません is the negative form of です. Hence, "It is not a bathtub". では often gets contracted into じゃ (this is slightly less formal), so it becomes じゃありません (or even more informally じゃない).

June 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/AndreaBrownRiley

Oh!!!! This is why I've been so confused!! When I took an actual class, tgey never taught de wa, just ja. Thank you for clarifying this!

June 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/infinitefluff

Ja is the slightly less formal version of dewa. So you can go from formal to informal: ではありません、じゃありません、じゃない.

June 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/rioscac

I've also heard ではない from a native speaker. Probably goes before じゃない and after じゃありません on that politeness continuum?

June 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

I'm not a native speaker, but I'd put ではない slightly closer to じゃない than じゃありません.

I think people tend to use ではない to emphasize a feeling of "yeah... but not really", rather than flat out negation. For example:

・いやいや、上手じゃないよ = "No no, I'm not good at all"

・いやいや、上手ではないよ = "No no, I'm not really that good"

(It could also just depend a lot on the tone of delivery, and I'm just used to hearing it one way over the other ┐('~`;)┌)

August 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Mike294350

Let's put it simply like this: おふろではありません。- This is not a bathtub. おふろはありません。- There is no bathtub.

April 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/cynsanity

Thank you I was really confused!

April 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Anthony579082

So basically ではありません it is not, はありません there is not (the thing)?

June 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Tc3KDQp5

If it was just は, making it おふろはありません。, then the translation would be "There is no bathtub".

June 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/rioscac

そうです!So is お風呂ではありません just a different way of saying お風呂ではない? Would there be any difference in the context of usage (e.g. formality etc)?

June 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Tc3KDQp5

They're basically the same thing. The latter one is just a bit informal.

June 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/rioscac

And for people, like 彼女は母さんじゃない, do you use 母さんではいません instead?

June 9, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/PeterKovalsky

You can think of the では there as changing the focus from the person to the state of being, which is inanimate. "The state of being a mother ありません," essentially.

June 13, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/KeithWong9

For people really want to understand what で is underneath, it is one of the particle usage - "in/as a state of." So これはトイレです expands to これはトイレであります meaning "This exists as a concept/state of a toilet." In a more reader-friendly version, "This is a toilet."

Similarly, トイレではありません means "(This) does not exists as a concept of a toilet." The は in ではありません is a contrast marker particle stressing the negative fact.

トイレがあります means "A toilet exists." Note that the subject is different from トイレであります (implicitly これ is the subject - これは is omitted from the sentence). Using the same logic, トイレはありません is "A toilet does not exist." In other words, "There is no toilet."

March 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

And であります nearly always gets shortened to です.

April 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/hiyawhatthe

Fantastic, thank you.

June 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/andrew867

So ですmeans "it is" and ではありません means "it isn't"?

June 23, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/maruseron

I found this confusing until I found out that 「です」is a contraction for 「ではあります」。

It was quite a revelation.

August 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Alycatvrl

What is the grammatical difference between "It is not a bathtub," and "There is no bathtub," in Japanese? Also anyone have trouble with the same two questions repeating?

January 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

This has already beed discussed at length on this discussion page. Please try to have a read of the earlier comments for a more thorough understanding. In summary:

  • あります = ある = "to exist" = "There is ..."
  • ありません = ない = "to not exist" = "There isn't .../There is no ..."
  • です = "is" (= である, not commonly used in modern Japanese) = "It is (a) ..."/"I am (a) ..."
  • ではありません = ではない = "is not" = "It isn't (a) ..."/"I'm not (a) ..."
January 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoeWerner2

Except here it states "dewa arimasen" (sorry for the transcription, need to figure out how to change that). By your explanation it would be "it is not"...

March 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

That's right. That's why the suggested translation for this sentence is "It is not a bathtub".

P.s. no need to apologize for romaji; it's just as valid for communication as "real" Japanese, though I don't recommend it as a target if your learning Japanese.

March 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

Unless you're on mobile, you can select the text at the top of the page and copy it.

March 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

A lot of people here are getting confused by the sentences meaning "It is not a bathtub." and "There is not a bathtub.", but they are not the same; there is a difference. Pay attention to the appearance/lack of では at the beginning of each verb. Pay special attention to the whether there is a で in front of the は; one is a part of the verb itself, the other is the topic particle for the preceeding noun.

です(desu) : "It is a ~" {short for ではあります(dewa arimasu)}

ではありません(dewa arimasen) : "It is not a ~"

あります(arimasu) : "There is a ~" or "a ___ exists" or "he has a ~"

ありません(arimasen) : "there isn't a ~" or "a __ doesn't exist" or "he doesn't have a ~"

Here's my personal method for remembering: Take で; when read by itself, it can be the utility/method particle , usually translated with phrases like "via ~", "using ~" or "by means of ~", but for the purposes of this example we'll translate with the word "as". So when put together with the "topic" particle は (You can excuse as emphasis), and then the verb あります, you would get "it exists as ~" or "it exist by means of ~". And because existance in the form or condition of something is the very definition of identity, the phrase can be shortened to "it is ~". After that, you can congugate to the negative with ~ません.

A few caveats though: Apparently として is what you use for roles and functions, not で. And neither です nor ではありません change form when the subject is something living or animate, unlike あります which changes to います.

March 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

Given how many people ask this question in the first place, It's doubtful how many of them actually bother to read the discussion. So unless you get the 460 votes to make it to the top...

April 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/antoniojack

What does the "o" at the beggining of the sentence do?

June 13, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexandrSantos

I think it basically means that you are not talking about your own bathtub. Remember that the Japanese tend to avoid personal pronouns, so "あなたのふろ" would not be an option. Much like when you want to ask someone's name and you ask them "お名前は何ですか". I've seen this お translated as "your honorable..." before in japanese movies.

June 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Garaekz

Is a honorific prefix I don't know why but some words preserve this prefix like お茶 and お水

June 15, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/rioscac

For honorifics, other than お there's also ご go as in ご飯?・ごはん and ご案内・ごあんない.

June 18, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Hlne207723

O- as an honorific prefix goes on native Japanese words (usually only one kanji) whilst go- is used with words written usually with more than one kanji, which are read with their Naomi.

October 23, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

Auto correct, eh?

January 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Madean6

How can i differentiate "there is(not)" and "it is(not)" in japanese?

September 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

Unfortunately, it comes down to memorizing あります/ありません for "there is (not)" and です/ではありません for "it is (not)".

A little trick for hearing it in speech (not sure how well this works with Duo's audio) is, in my experience, native speakers tend to put a short pause before the verb, if they're trying to be better understood by a foreigner. So, for this exercise, you might hear 「お風呂、ではありません」 as opposed to 「お風呂は、ありません」. It's probably too subtle to catch most of the time though...

September 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

I don't think you need to memorize it really; just know that です is short for the very archaic ではあります, and also noting that で when read by itself can be the utility/method particle, sometimes translated with the word "as". So put together with the "topic" particle は (I assume for emphasis), and then the verb あります, you would get "it exists as -" or "it exist by means of -". And because existance in the form or condition of something is the very definition of identity, the phrase can be shortened to "it is -". After that, you can congugate to the negative with ~ません.

Of course, I'm no expert on Japanese Etemology, but this is how I remember it. This line of reasoning also falls apart when you consider the verb います: neither です nor ではありません change form when the subject is something living or animate.

September 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

Oh, I didn't do my proper fact checking. Apparently として is what you use for roles and functions, not で. Hopefully I didn't mislead anyone too much.

September 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/John132080

How would I go about saying "This is not a bathtub", referring to an object in front of me? I feel like I would really enjoy just going around explaining to people what is not a bathtub.

October 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

Knock yourself out! XD

これはおふろではありません! (これ = "this")

If you want to be emphatic about it, you can add よ on the end ;)

November 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JaimeSincl

Whats the difference between furo and ofuro?

July 26, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

Essentially, not much I think. お is an honorific prefix here, but like in お水 and お茶, its main purpose is to make you sound "proper" and "nice". I don't think it's necessarily rude to drop it, but お風呂 is so ubiquitously used, people might do a double-take without the お.

August 11, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Aciyssej

This really confuses me because i thought ありまづ means there is something, so why doesnt ありません mean there isnt something. Rather, it means the same thing as でわない? How would you say, there is no bathtub then?

January 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Azraelios

I'll put this here because it confused the hell out of me. おふろはありません means: It's no bathtub. Adding ”で” to this line (おふろではありません ) changes the translation to: It's not a bathtub. I would say that in English, It is no ... and It's not a ... are pretty much interchangable but appearantly not in Japanese. Could someone clarify this for me?

June 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

If you're confused, I would suggest reading the other comments first. There's a lot of information already here.

おふろはありません means "there is no bathtub" or "a bathtub doesn't exist", not "it's no bathtub". This is because あります is the verb describing "existence" for inanimate objects, and ありません is the negative form of that. So, any variation of a sentence which refute the existence of specific bathtub/s or bathtubs in general should be acceptable.

On the other hand, I recommend thinking of おふろではありません as "changing the verb from ありません to ではありません" rather than simply "adding で". If we look back at the affirmative versions of these verbs, ありません → あります and ではありません → です, you'll see they are completely different. Unlike あります, です doesn't tell whether something exists or not. It tells you that something is the same as something else. For example: 私はジョンです means "I am John". In this sentence, whether or not "I" exist or "John" exists is completely irrelevant; the statement I'm making is that "I" = "John".

Likewise, in おふろはありません, the statement being made is that "it" != "a bathtub". So any variation of an English sentence that conveys that statement should be acceptable.

By the way, the reason we're talking about "it" is because the subject is typically dropped from Japanese sentences if it's already obvious through context. For example: if you ask me "what is it?", I could (rather unhelpfully) say [これ/それ/あれは]おふろではありません. On the other hand, if you asked "is there a bathtub?", I could say [おふろは]ありません. (The square brackets indicate what I could leave out and still be considered correct in Japanese).

July 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/RebekahMad1

For anyone looking for the kanji for ふろ: 風呂 (風=wind; 呂=spine) Neither of those kanji make any sense, but I thought I might as well provide their meanings anyway.

March 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Crys_tal

Don't they say "janai" in Japanese instead of "de wa arimasen"

September 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

They say both. じゃない is simply more casual.

October 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/tangolulu85

I thought that ふろ was bath not bathtub

January 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/hippietrail

Bath and bathtub are the same in English. Maybe some dialects distinguish them, but not mine.

February 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

Well, taking a bath and taking a bathtub are very different things.

February 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/BretS5

I thought 浴 yoku was bathtub....... and this would be washroom, so confused

February 26, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

No, 浴槽 (よくそう) can be used to mean "bathtub", but that is kind of a formal, somewhat pretentious way to say it. お風呂 (おふろ) is significantly more common. It refers to the bathtub itself, but also more generally the room the bathtub is in.

浴 is seldom used by itself this way anyway; it's more commonly seen in the verb 浴びる (あびる) meaning "to bathe, to shower". It's also used in two-kanji words, many of which are associated with bathing, such as 入浴 (にゅうよく, "entering a bath") and 混浴 (こんよく, "mixed bathing").

March 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Chris.Guillen

It sounds like it's pronounced "o huru" instead of "ofuru"

Does anyone agree with that? Is that the way it is pronounced. It should Ofuru, based, on the character sound, but idk if it changes like things change in English

May 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

Yes, I agree, and in practice, this is how native Japanese speakers would pronounce it.

If you look up a hiragana chart, you'll notice that ふ is in the "h" row (はひふへほ). I'm not 100% sure as to why this came to be, but the Japanese "h" is actually a bit softer (especially for ふ and ひ) than the English "h" and it sounds like trying to make a "h" sound while your mouth is in the same shape as an "f".

Try it. Say "f" and pay attention to where your lips and tongue end up. Keep them there and try to say "who". It should sound pretty similar to the Japanese pronunciation of ふ.

Edit: forgot to add that this is the standard Japanese pronunciation of ふ. It doesn't change very much based on the context (unlike in English), but sounds around it can accentuate the "f" or the "h" nature of the Japanese ふ to English ears.

July 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

Also, that's ro, not ru

January 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/CottonAlpaca

hmmm i think it should be more これはおふろではありません..... Throught the rest of the exercise, ではありません was not used to indicate "it is" at all

June 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

No, you're half right, in that ではありません is not used to indicate "it is" (because it is always used to indicate "is not"), but including これは means "this is not a bathtub".

Japanese relies heavily on context, so おふろではありません actually means "(the thing we've been talking about, and is so obvious to everyone in the conversation that I don't need to repeat it) is not a bathtub". Without any contextual/conversational information, the best we can do in English is "it" to represent some unspecified object.

August 17, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Amawaku

What is the difference between おふろはありません and おふろではありません? Which one is the negation of what?

October 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/heypano

So 「では」ありません is the more formal version of 「じゃ」ありませんwhich is the more formal version of 「じゃ」ない. All 3 of these mean "is not" and are the negation of です effectively. 「は」or「が」ありません ( or ない informally) mean "don't have/doesn't exist" and can be thought of as the negation of ある.

October 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Amawaku

So "おふろない" would mean "There is no bathtub", and "おふろじゃない" translates as "This is not a bathtub" ?

December 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/xero11

Ok will someone please help me with this. Im so confused. I know what we're talking about, i know what words mean what but i for the life of me cant figure out the difference between there is, it is a , there isnt and it is not

December 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

Pay attention to the appearance/lack of では at the beginning of each verb.

です(desu) : "It is a -" {short for ではあります(dewa arimasu)}

ではありません(dewa arimasen) : "It is not a -"

あります(arimasu) : "There is a -" or "a ___ exists" or "he has a -"

ありません(arimasen) : "there isn't a -" or "a __ doesn't exist" or "he doesn't have a -"

Personally I think of the では as a particle meaning "as a", which I add to ありません to get a phrase meaning "it doesn't exist as a", which you can shorten further to "it is not a".

Edit: just making corrections to my last statement. Thank you John863934 for bringing it to my attention.

December 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

You're welcome!

December 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ChigeDes

This has me really confused

July 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Letkuan_Nexus

お風呂ではありません is marked as a wrong answer

July 17, 2019, 2:18 AM
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