"おふろではありません。"

Translation:It is not a bathtub.

June 6, 2017

181 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/gwhiteside

"Let's go to the beach."

"I'll get my soap!"

"It is not a bathtub."

June 17, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/FAlter5

You never take soap into a Japanese bathtub. You wash and shower before you enter. The water is not changed between the family members, all bath in the same water, so only after they are already clean. But お風呂 means the bath, not explicitely only the bathtub, it can mean a bit more. You would never translate お風呂が好き as "I like the bathtub", but more as" I like bathing". But the bathroom is the lit. "bathplace" お風呂場 and there is no toilet in the bathroom (this is in another room which it is called お手洗い or トイレ).

Edit: What I wanted to say before I got lost is that you would not take soap into the bathTUB, but to the bath. So in the context of the Japanese お風呂 it might be ok to speak about soap, but only when you do not translate it as bathTUB. Soap in the bathtub is a no-go. The one using the same water after you would see the foam and think that you washed in the bathTUB, which means you would have gone into it while dirty, so the water is dirty now.

February 19, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Iron00

Why are you bathing if you are already clean?

June 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/bongoman8
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That is a good question. I think it is a good place to relax.... probably the only place in a Japanese house and perhaps the only time you will have to yourself as a Japanese 9-9'er (they don't work hours like westerners do.). There is also a big tradition of onsen where people go to enjoy hot baths. Another reason that came to mind about having a pre-filled tub where people share the water is that clean water used to be very scarce. So you would clean yourself before and use as little water to clean yourself. Then you would dip in the hot tub for 5-10 mins to relax to get the experience of a bath without dirtying the whole tub and having to start over again. It is less wasteful this way.

June 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/MexicoMadness
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Another reason to take the VERY hot bath is to make yourself very warm before going to sleep in an unheated room when the weather is cold.

September 17, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Jwjl1
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It is like a hot tub rather than a bathtub, sans jets. Given Japan's volcanic activity and abundance of hot-springs, they have a cultural affinity towards relaxing in hot water. :)

October 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ILOVEJAPAN9

also it's called soaking

July 17, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/EvgenyKole1

Seriously !?

December 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Sashohere
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But my reply "It is not a BATH" was marked incorrect.

October 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Abby966388

So was my " It isnt a bathtub."

January 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Joe264823

but is it still a common practice?

February 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/rioscac
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What's the difference between は and では?

June 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/KiritsuguZFC
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ではありません is the negative form of です. Hence, "It is not a bathtub". では often gets contracted into じゃ (this is slightly less formal), so it becomes じゃありません (or even more informally じゃない).

June 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/AndreaBrownRiley

Oh!!!! This is why I've been so confused!! When I took an actual class, tgey never taught de wa, just ja. Thank you for clarifying this!

June 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/infinitefluff

Ja is the slightly less formal version of dewa. So you can go from formal to informal: ではありません、じゃありません、じゃない.

June 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/rioscac
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I've also heard ではない from a native speaker. Probably goes before じゃない and after じゃありません on that politeness continuum?

June 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

I'm not a native speaker, but I'd put ではない slightly closer to じゃない than じゃありません.

I think people tend to use ではない to emphasize a feeling of "yeah... but not really", rather than flat out negation. For example:

・いやいや、上手じゃないよ = "No no, I'm not good at all"

・いやいや、上手ではないよ = "No no, I'm not really that good"

(It could also just depend a lot on the tone of delivery, and I'm just used to hearing it one way over the other ┐('~`;)┌)

August 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Tc3KDQp5

If it was just は, making it おふろはありません。, then the translation would be "There is no bathtub".

June 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/rioscac
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そうです!So is お風呂ではありません just a different way of saying お風呂ではない? Would there be any difference in the context of usage (e.g. formality etc)?

June 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Tc3KDQp5

They're basically the same thing. The latter one is just a bit informal.

June 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/rioscac
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And for people, like 彼女は母さんじゃない, do you use 母さんではいません instead?

June 9, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/PeterKovalsky

You can think of the では there as changing the focus from the person to the state of being, which is inanimate. "The state of being a mother ありません," essentially.

June 13, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Tc3KDQp5

I could be wrong about this, but I think it would actually be 母さんではありません。 I'm not exactly sure why, hopefully someone can give you a better explanation.

June 10, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

Don't you have to use お with さん?

December 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

@John863934 not necessarily. 母さん, and then 母ちゃん, makes for a more casual/endearing way to call your own mother.

December 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

@joshualore Thanks! Would the kanji still be pronounced かあ?

December 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

@John863934 yes, 母さん and 母ちゃん are pronounced かあさん and かあちゃん, respectively.

December 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/kairu260485
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Thanks, I had gotten myself confused on this one

October 15, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/andrew867

So ですmeans "it is" and ではありません means "it isn't"?

June 23, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/maruseron
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I found this confusing until I found out that 「です」is a contraction for 「ではあります」。

It was quite a revelation.

August 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/amber602239

Oh!!!!! I never knew that! Thank you!!

October 15, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/TheKingLir

That makes a lot of sense.

December 18, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/FonzieSquirrel

Exactly!

June 23, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Deivisony

Deleted... Wait what?

February 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Alycatvrl

What is the grammatical difference between "It is not a bathtub," and "There is no bathtub," in Japanese? Also anyone have trouble with the same two questions repeating?

January 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

This has already beed discussed at length on this discussion page. Please try to have a read of the earlier comments for a more thorough understanding. In summary:

  • あります = ある = "to exist" = "There is ..."
  • ありません = ない = "to not exist" = "There isn't .../There is no ..."
  • です = "is" (= である, not commonly used in modern Japanese) = "It is (a) ..."/"I am (a) ..."
  • ではありません = ではない = "is not" = "It isn't (a) ..."/"I'm not (a) ..."
January 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoeWerner2
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Except here it states "dewa arimasen" (sorry for the transcription, need to figure out how to change that). By your explanation it would be "it is not"...

March 21, 2019, 8:32 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

That's right. That's why the suggested translation for this sentence is "It is not a bathtub".

P.s. no need to apologize for romaji; it's just as valid for communication as "real" Japanese, though I don't recommend it as a target if your learning Japanese.

March 21, 2019, 10:02 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/antoniojack
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What does the "o" at the beggining of the sentence do?

June 13, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexandrSantos
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I think it basically means that you are not talking about your own bathtub. Remember that the Japanese tend to avoid personal pronouns, so "あなたのふろ" would not be an option. Much like when you want to ask someone's name and you ask them "お名前は何ですか". I've seen this お translated as "your honorable..." before in japanese movies.

June 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Garaekz

Is a honorific prefix I don't know why but some words preserve this prefix like お茶 and お水

June 15, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/rioscac
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For honorifics, other than お there's also ご go as in ご飯?・ごはん and ご案内・ごあんない.

June 18, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Hlne207723
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O- as an honorific prefix goes on native Japanese words (usually only one kanji) whilst go- is used with words written usually with more than one kanji, which are read with their Naomi.

October 23, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

Auto correct, eh?

January 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Madean6

How can i differentiate "there is(not)" and "it is(not)" in japanese?

September 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

Unfortunately, it comes down to memorizing あります/ありません for "there is (not)" and です/ではありません for "it is (not)".

A little trick for hearing it in speech (not sure how well this works with Duo's audio) is, in my experience, native speakers tend to put a short pause before the verb, if they're trying to be better understood by a foreigner. So, for this exercise, you might hear 「お風呂、ではありません」 as opposed to 「お風呂は、ありません」. It's probably too subtle to catch most of the time though...

September 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

I don't think you need to memorize it really; just know that です is short for the very archaic ではあります, and also noting that で when read by itself can be the utility/method particle, sometimes translated with the word "as". So put together with the "topic" particle は (I assume for emphasis), and then the verb あります, you would get "it exists as -" or "it exist by means of -". And because existance in the form or condition of something is the very definition of identity, the phrase can be shortened to "it is -". After that, you can congugate to the negative with ~ません.

Of course, I'm no expert on Japanese Etemology, but this is how I remember it. This line of reasoning also falls apart when you consider the verb います: neither です nor ではありません change form when the subject is something living or animate.

September 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

Oh, I didn't do my proper fact checking. Apparently として is what you use for roles and functions, not で. Hopefully I didn't mislead anyone too much.

September 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/lapinhibou
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Why isn't there a が to mark the subject is this sentence?

September 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

A lot of people here are getting confused by the sentences meaning "It is not a bathtub." and "There is not a bathtub.", but they are not the same; there is a difference. Pay attention to the appearance/lack of では at the beginning of each verb. Pay special attention to the whether there is a で in front of the は; one is a part of the verb itself, the other is the topic particle for the preceeding noun.

です(desu) : "It is a ~" {short for ではあります(dewa arimasu)}

ではありません(dewa arimasen) : "It is not a ~"

あります(arimasu) : "There is a ~" or "a ___ exists" or "he has a ~"

ありません(arimasen) : "there isn't a ~" or "a __ doesn't exist" or "he doesn't have a ~"

Here's my personal method for remembering: Take で; when read by itself, it can be the utility/method particle , usually translated with phrases like "via ~", "using ~" or "by means of ~", but for the purposes of this example we'll translate with the word "as". So when put together with the "topic" particle は (You can excuse as emphasis), and then the verb あります, you would get "it exists as ~" or "it exist by means of ~". And because existance in the form or condition of something is the very definition of identity, the phrase can be shortened to "it is ~". After that, you can congugate to the negative with ~ません.

A few caveats though: Apparently として is what you use for roles and functions, not で. And neither です nor ではありません change form when the subject is something living or animate, unlike あります which changes to います.

March 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/JaimeSincl

Whats the difference between furo and ofuro?

July 26, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

Essentially, not much I think. お is an honorific prefix here, but like in お水 and お茶, its main purpose is to make you sound "proper" and "nice". I don't think it's necessarily rude to drop it, but お風呂 is so ubiquitously used, people might do a double-take without the お.

August 11, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/John132080

How would I go about saying "This is not a bathtub", referring to an object in front of me? I feel like I would really enjoy just going around explaining to people what is not a bathtub.

October 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

Knock yourself out! XD

これはおふろではありません! (これ = "this")

If you want to be emphatic about it, you can add よ on the end ;)

November 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/RickGoGoGo

お風呂はありません vs お風呂ではありません 

May 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Amawaku
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What is the difference between おふろはありません and おふろではありません? Which one is the negation of what?

October 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/heypano
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So 「では」ありません is the more formal version of 「じゃ」ありませんwhich is the more formal version of 「じゃ」ない. All 3 of these mean "is not" and are the negation of です effectively. 「は」or「が」ありません ( or ない informally) mean "don't have/doesn't exist" and can be thought of as the negation of ある.

October 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Amawaku
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So "おふろない" would mean "There is no bathtub", and "おふろじゃない" translates as "This is not a bathtub" ?

December 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

You got the "This is not a bathtub" correct, but I think you misunderstood heypano's explanation in regard to your other sentence. He's saying that you should use ない as a negation suffix to verbs in dictionary form, about the same way that you use ません for verbs in polite form.

"おふろない" doesn't make any sense. You got the noun and the verb's suffix, but your missing the topic/subject marker (は or が) and the verb itself (ある). What you meant to say was either "おふろはあるない", or "おふろがあるない"

EDIT: ""おふろない" doesn't make any sense." I might have been wrong about that. According to google translate, it translates to "no bathtub", but this being google translate...

December 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

No, @Amawaku was mostly correct (slight caveat at the end). I think you've also misunderstood how Japanese verb endings work. "おふろはあるない" and "おふろがあるない" don't make any sense.

ある is a slightly special verb which has its own rules for conjugation. Specifically, the plain negative is simply ない, while most other verbs add ない onto the end of the verb stem.

  • ある (plain positive) -> おふろはある
  • あります (polite positive) -> おふろはあります
  • ない (plain negative) -> おふろはない
  • ありません (polite negative) -> おふろはありません

In all the above examples, you can replace any は with が and it will still have the same meaning.

Caveat: also, in casual spoken Japanese, particles are often dropped when it's obvious from context, so you could remove は completely for the plain versions and you would still be understood/sound perfectly normal (in the right situations, i.e. ones which call for/allow casual spoken Japanese). So おふろない does make sense, but that's why it feels incomplete because it is incomplete.

December 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

@Amawaku again, you're mostly correct, with a couple of caveats. Unfortunately for us non-native speakers, two of the most commonly used verbs in Japanese (ある and です) are irregular verbs.

Caveat, the first: である is indeed "to be", but nowadays it's a verb people associate with historical dramas. である (plain positive) has since been replaced in contemporary Japanese by the copula だ (plain positive)/です (polite positive). The only remnant of it commonly used now is in the negative forms of です,which itself is an even more irregular verb: ではない (plain negative)/ではありません (polite negative) where the は here is added to emphasize the negative-ness.

Caveat #2: (this is going to get technical and far more advanced than Duo expects you to be at this stage of the course) There actually isn't an "infinitive form" in Japanese. As you have probably seen in the other exercises before this one, basic Japanese sentences typically have a verb at the end, usually in its polite positive form for beginners. (By the way, the plain positive form is also commonly referred to as "dictionary form" or "the root form/verb".) The four forms I had in my above comment plain/polite positive/negative versions of "present/non-past tense verbs", which is why they can be used as is at the end of a sentence; you can only have one main verb at a time though. To make the "infinitive form", you have to "nominalize" the verb by adding の or こと to the "root verb". (For more detail, google "Japanese verb nominalization".) But doing this also allows the verb to be translated into the "gerund form", so it's not exactly the infinitive form.

@PrismVelocity you're welcome. Yes, you're right, the only irregularity of ある is its negative forms. There is another kind of irregularity in a sense that ある doesn't have more complex verb forms, such potential, volitional, passive, causative, etc., as most other verbs do.

Other common irregular verbs are です, する, 行く, and 来る.Luckily, Japanese doesn't have very many irregular verbs. I think that list will just about cover all the irregular verbs.

December 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Amawaku
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Hmm okay, I think I'm starting to get it. So the verb "to exist" is "ある" and the verb "to be" would be "である" ? (The infinitive is a form I'm not familiar with at all since Duo doesn't teach it. )

December 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

I see. So in that sense, ある is an example of an irregular verb in Japanese? If so, in what other ways does its conjugation differ from regular verbs?

Also, out of curiosity, what other irregular verbs may have I missed?

EDIT: nevermind, turns out that's the only irregularity ある has, and it's otherwise regular. Thanks for correcting me btw.

December 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Amawaku
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Thanks a lot for the clear and detailed explanations to @JoshuaLore9 !

December 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Amawaku
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That's what I thought indeed... I didn't know how to phrase it but I felt like it was incomplete. Thanks for the correction !

December 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Bill_Javaandel
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I wrote the kanji 風呂instead of the hiragana ふろ. This isn't incorrect, but my answer was still marked incorrect. This course seems to have something against kanji users...

March 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Crys_tal

Don't they say "janai" in Japanese instead of "de wa arimasen"

September 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

They say both. じゃない is simply more casual.

October 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/tangochan85
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I thought that ふろ was bath not bathtub

January 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/hippietrail
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Bath and bathtub are the same in English. Maybe some dialects distinguish them, but not mine.

February 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

Well, taking a bath and taking a bathtub are very different things.

February 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/BretS5

I thought 浴 yoku was bathtub....... and this would be washroom, so confused

February 26, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

No, 浴槽 (よくそう) can be used to mean "bathtub", but that is kind of a formal, somewhat pretentious way to say it. お風呂 (おふろ) is significantly more common. It refers to the bathtub itself, but also more generally the room the bathtub is in.

浴 is seldom used by itself this way anyway; it's more commonly seen in the verb 浴びる (あびる) meaning "to bathe, to shower". It's also used in two-kanji words, many of which are associated with bathing, such as 入浴 (にゅうよく, "entering a bath") and 混浴 (こんよく, "mixed bathing").

March 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/UsamaBinMamun

If I said, ふろではありません and skip the お part, would it be incorrect?

May 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

No, it wouldn't be incorrect, but it's rather uncommon in Japan.

June 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Chris.Guillen

It sounds like it's pronounced "o huru" instead of "ofuru"

Does anyone agree with that? Is that the way it is pronounced. It should Ofuru, based, on the character sound, but idk if it changes like things change in English

May 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

Yes, I agree, and in practice, this is how native Japanese speakers would pronounce it.

If you look up a hiragana chart, you'll notice that ふ is in the "h" row (はひふへほ). I'm not 100% sure as to why this came to be, but the Japanese "h" is actually a bit softer (especially for ふ and ひ) than the English "h" and it sounds like trying to make a "h" sound while your mouth is in the same shape as an "f".

Try it. Say "f" and pay attention to where your lips and tongue end up. Keep them there and try to say "who". It should sound pretty similar to the Japanese pronunciation of ふ.

Edit: forgot to add that this is the standard Japanese pronunciation of ふ. It doesn't change very much based on the context (unlike in English), but sounds around it can accentuate the "f" or the "h" nature of the Japanese ふ to English ears.

July 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

Also, that's ro, not ru

January 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/CottonAlpaca

hmmm i think it should be more これはおふろではありません..... Throught the rest of the exercise, ではありません was not used to indicate "it is" at all

June 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

No, you're half right, in that ではありません is not used to indicate "it is" (because it is always used to indicate "is not"), but including これは means "this is not a bathtub".

Japanese relies heavily on context, so おふろではありません actually means "(the thing we've been talking about, and is so obvious to everyone in the conversation that I don't need to repeat it) is not a bathtub". Without any contextual/conversational information, the best we can do in English is "it" to represent some unspecified object.

August 17, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Azraelios

I'll put this here because it confused the hell out of me. おふろはありません means: It's no bathtub. Adding ”で” to this line (おふろではありません ) changes the translation to: It's not a bathtub. I would say that in English, It is no ... and It's not a ... are pretty much interchangable but appearantly not in Japanese. Could someone clarify this for me?

June 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

If you're confused, I would suggest reading the other comments first. There's a lot of information already here.

おふろはありません means "there is no bathtub" or "a bathtub doesn't exist", not "it's no bathtub". This is because あります is the verb describing "existence" for inanimate objects, and ありません is the negative form of that. So, any variation of a sentence which refute the existence of specific bathtub/s or bathtubs in general should be acceptable.

On the other hand, I recommend thinking of おふろではありません as "changing the verb from ありません to ではありません" rather than simply "adding で". If we look back at the affirmative versions of these verbs, ありません → あります and ではありません → です, you'll see they are completely different. Unlike あります, です doesn't tell whether something exists or not. It tells you that something is the same as something else. For example: 私はジョンです means "I am John". In this sentence, whether or not "I" exist or "John" exists is completely irrelevant; the statement I'm making is that "I" = "John".

Likewise, in おふろはありません, the statement being made is that "it" != "a bathtub". So any variation of an English sentence that conveys that statement should be acceptable.

By the way, the reason we're talking about "it" is because the subject is typically dropped from Japanese sentences if it's already obvious through context. For example: if you ask me "what is it?", I could (rather unhelpfully) say [これ/それ/あれは]おふろではありません. On the other hand, if you asked "is there a bathtub?", I could say [おふろは]ありません. (The square brackets indicate what I could leave out and still be considered correct in Japanese).

July 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Joshua10902

What would be the difference in saying おふろはじゃないです?

November 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

Formality, though you probably don't need the は, as じゃ is a shortened form of では.

January 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/plm3010
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There isnt a bathtub There is no bathtub

Is the same as

There is not a bathtub.

December 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

Yes, they are the same sentence, but none of them match the Japanese. Those would all be おふろ ありません or some similar sentence. This is おふろ では ありません, which means it is not a bathtub.

December 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

I think you're getting confused by the syntactical similarities between the two sentences in Japanese. They are not the same though. Pay close attention to whether or not a で exists before the は.

Edit: Ok, that one was on me. You were just expressing a different wording of the same English sentence, weren't you? And Duo didn't accept it?

December 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Osh623126

What's wrong with "there is no bathtub"? Would that be おふろがありません?

February 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

You're assessment about おふろありません is ... sort of correct, in a roundabout way. But again, just like I told TomMenez not even 3 hours ago, your question has already been answered 12 times. Please read the discussion before you ask.

February 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/sgenterlein

Didn't accept the kanji version お風呂ではありません shrug

March 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/LeylaPrism

when do we know to use the 'お' at the start???

March 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/RandomnessElla

Always

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/RebekahMad1

For anyone looking for the kanji for ふろ: 風呂 (風=wind; 呂=spine) Neither of those kanji make any sense, but I thought I might as well provide their meanings anyway.

March 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Nellie401253

The exercise directly before this was to translate the English "There is no bathtub" by selecting the Japanese parts into おふろではありません, but me saying it in this exercise is wrong?

March 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

That last exercise didn't have the で before the は. "There is no bathtub" is just おふろはありません. no で.

March 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Dale.R.Thomas

I do not understand why this does not mean: You do not have a bathtub,

November 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Chantel92
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I believe you would need ga in the sentence to show possession.

November 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/FadyJaber

Can this also mean " there is no bathtub " ?

I feel the correct way to say it is not a bathtub would be これがお風呂では有りません

Can someone highlight the difference between it is not a bathtub and there is no bathtub ?

October 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

おふろはありません: "there is no bathtub." doesn't have the で before the は.

おふろはありません: "it is not a bathtub" does have a で.

I've explained my personal method of remembering this elsewhere on this very discussion, but the TLDR version is to take the では in ではありません to mean "-as a-" and together with ありません, you get "-as a-" + "does not exist" = "it doesn't exist as a-" which can be simplified to "it is not a-".

October 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

Also, your sentence would be this is not a bathtub.

January 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/marloweisdead

Is arimasen used for the negative of desu? "It is" has been using desu and "There is" arimasu but "It is not" is using arimasen and I was marked incorrect for putting "There is not .."

October 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

No. "there is not a -" and "It is not a -" are two totally different phrases even in Japanese. Pay attention to the appearance/lack of では at the beginning of each verb.

です(desu) : "It is a -" {short for ではあります(dewa arimasu)}

ではありません(dewa arimasen) : "It is not a -"

あります(arimasu) : "There is a -" or "a ___ exists" or "he has a -"

ありません(arimasen) : "there isn't a -" or "a __ doesn't exist" or "he doesn't have a -"

October 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Adeleke5140

So how do I distinguish - "it is not a bathtub" from "there is no bathtub".

December 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Amawaku
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"There is no bathtub" requires the verb "to exist" so it comes as "おふろ(bathtub) はありません(polite negative of あります : to exist) ".

"This is not a bathtub" means that what you are looking at has a different nature that a bathtub. You don't say anything about bathtubs in general, just that what you are looking at is not one... You use the verb "to be" in the descriptive sense. The sentence therefore would be "おふろ(bathtub) ではありません(polite negative of です)."

December 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/xero11

Ok will someone please help me with this. Im so confused. I know what we're talking about, i know what words mean what but i for the life of me cant figure out the difference between there is, it is a , there isnt and it is not

December 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

(Copy-pasted somewhat from my reply to marloweisdead above)

Pay attention to the appearance/lack of では at the beginning of each verb.

です(desu) : "It is a -" {short for ではあります(dewa arimasu)}

ではありません(dewa arimasen) : "It is not a -"

あります(arimasu) : "There is a -" or "a ___ exists" or "he has a -"

ありません(arimasen) : "there isn't a -" or "a __ doesn't exist" or "he doesn't have a -"

Personally I think of the では as a particle meaning "as a", which I add to ありません to get a phrase meaning "it doesn't exist as a", which you can shorten further to "it is not a".

Edit: just making corrections to my last statement. Thank you John863934 for bringing it to my attention.

December 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

You're welcome!

December 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/TheLarz
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Your answer doesn't include a very common contraction: "There isn't a bathtub” is just as valid a translation as "There is not a bathtub."

January 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

So... not valid at all?
This sentence means "IT is not a bathtub"!!!!!!!!

March 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kiwi-sama

Why is the translation "It is not a bathtub" and not "There is not a bathtub?

January 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

おふろはありません: "there is no bathtub." doesn't have the で before the は.

おふろはありません: "it is not a bathtub" does have a で.

JoshuaLore9 and I have both explained this answer at length throughout this discussion, and so I would like for you to look through it for more information.

January 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/VrindaPrab

I am just learning Japanese, so apologies if its a very silly question.

How do you differentiate between "it is a not a bathtub" versus "there is no bathtub".

Thanks in advance!!

January 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

(Partly copy-pasted from some of my other answers on this discussion)

Pay attention to the appearance/lack of では at the beginning of each verb.

です(desu) : "It is a -" {short for ではあります(dewa arimasu)}

ではありません(dewa arimasen) : "It is not a -"

あります(arimasu) : "There is a -" or "a ___ exists" or "he has a -"

ありません(arimasen) : "there isn't a -" or "a __ doesn't exist" or "he doesn't have a -"

Here's my personal method for remembering: Take で; when read by itself, it can be the utility/method particle, sometimes translated with the word "as". So when put together with the "topic" particle は (You can excuse as emphasis), and then the verb あります, you would get "it exists as -" or "it exist by means of -". And because existance in the form or condition of something is the very definition of identity, the phrase can be shortened to "it is -". After that, you can congugate to the negative with ~ません.

A few caveats though: Apparently として is what you use for roles and functions, not で. And neither です nor ではありません change form when the subject is something living or animate, unlike あります which changes to います.

January 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/VrindaPrab

I am just starting to learn Japanese and using only duo,so apologies if this is a silly question.

How do you differentiate between "its not a bathtub" versus "there is no bathtub"?

Thanks in advance.

January 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Peter_Gubanov

I am sorry but what if I ll say: おふろがではありません What will this mean? There is no bathtub?

January 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

This is simply ungrammatical Japanese; it doesn't mean anything. です and its other grammatical forms (e.g. negative ではありません) must always be preceded by a noun/noun phrase or adjective.

January 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/bernardwon2

Why doesnt this mean there is no bathtub

January 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

here's a hint: It all has to do with whether there is a では in front of the ありません.

JoshuaLore9 and I have both explained this answer at length multiple times throughout this discussion, and so I would like for you to look through it for your answers.

January 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/helena.maria10

Shouldn't "There is no bathtub" also be correct?

January 31, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

here's a hint: It all has to do with whether there is a では in front of the ありません.

JoshuaLore9 and I have both explained this answer at length multiple times throughout this discussion, and so I would like for you to look through it for your answers.

January 31, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/GreggAbe

Is it correct to say... "There is no tub?"

February 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

Not in this instance, no.

Why? Well, JoshuaLore9 and I have both explained this answer at length multiple times throughout this discussion, and so I would like for you to look through it for your answers.

But here's a hint: It all has to do with whether there is a では in front of the ありません.

February 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/XimenaMedi318941

There is not a bathtub is the same?

February 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

No it is not.

JoshuaLore9 and I have both explained this answer at length multiple times throughout this discussion, and so I would like for you to look through it for your answers.

But here's a hint: It all has to do with whether or not there is a で in front of the は in front of the ありません. Pay special attention to that で.

February 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/mendeztom

It isn't a bathtub vs there is no bathtub?!? Difference anyone? Isn't arimasu along the lines of "to exist" literally

February 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

Read the rest of the discussion. The answer you are looking for has already been given a dozen times. I'll give you a hint though: is there a "dewa" in front of the "arimasen" or not?

February 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/RichardF.6

So ? How do you say : There is no Bathtub.

March 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

I'd tell you to read the discussion for you answer because your question has been asked over a dozen times already, but at this point the number of comments telling people to look through the discussion to find their answers outnumbers the answers themselves. So I'm just going to compile my own explanation that is not a reply to anyone else, and hope it gets enough upvotes to get noticed near the top of the page.

March 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/RobertKinzie

Hmm DL didn't accept 'furo' even though that is a real word used in English and Japanese

November 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

What do you mean by "that is a real word used in English and Japanese"? "Furo" doesn't make any sense in English.

In Japanese, "bathtub" is almost always ふろ. I'm not 100% sure why this is the case, but my guess is one of these two possibilities:

1) Bathing is such an important part of Japanese culture that leaving out the お honorific seems almost sacrilegious.

2) It is added to avoid confusion with words like 浮浪 (ふろう = "vagrancy", "vagabond"), 不労 (ふろう = "unearned"), or even 不良 (ふりょう = "inferior", "delinquency").

That being said, I think Duo should accept ふろ f(^_^;

December 12, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/PeterShepp2

Why is 'There is no bath' incorrect?

November 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

おふろはありません: "there is no bathtub." doesn't have the で before the は.

おふろはありません: "it is not a bathtub" does have a で.

I've explained my personal method of remembering this elsewhere on this very discussion, but the TLDR version is to take the では in ではありません to mean "-as a-" and together with ありません, you get "-as a-" + "does not exist" = "it doesn't exist as a-" which can be simplified to "it is not a-".

November 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Jim878208

Provided translation makes no sense. I was taught あぢま to mean existence for inanimate objects. For the providede tranlation でわない seems more appropriate.

November 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Michal13155

Can someone please explain what's the difference between "there is no bathtub" and "it is not a bathtub". I keep getting it wrong. Thanks.

December 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Amawaku
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See above, there are plenty explanations already ;).

December 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/msssima
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I AM SO MAD If あります means something like "exists" then ありません should be "does not exist So おふろではありません should mean "There is no bath", but it's "It is not a bath" WHY

March 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/PrismVelocity

ではありません. The operating difference is in the では of the phrase. Read the rest of the discussion because there are a dozen comments addressing it.

March 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/cherie941176

To maintain consistency with the other examples in this practice section, the answers should also accept "there is no bath /bathroom". Please add this to the accepted answers!

January 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

I think you're missing the point of this practice section. They are specifically trying to highlight the DIFFERENCE between おふろではありません and おふろありません. These translate to "It is not a bath" and "There isn't a bath", respectively, and they are not interchangeable. Both the Japanese and English sentences mean different things.

January 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Alycatvrl

What would the message be if the particle "ga" was used? Would it be just an intense "wa?"

January 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshuaLore9

Firstly, for おふろではありません, you can't switch out the は for が. I'm not entirely sure why, but suffice it to say, でがありません isn't acceptable in modern Japanese.

For おふろはありません, the difference from using が instead isn't necessarily intensity, but rather a subtle shift in where emphasis is placed.

The most helpful way to figure out the difference I've seen is to consider what question you would need to ask to get one particle or the other. Remember, は marks the topic or what we're talking about, while が marks the subject or what is doing the verb.

  • Is there a bathtub here? いいえ、おふろありません。"No, if you're talking about bathtubs, there are none."
  • What don't you like about your house? おふろありません。"Bathtubs are a thing that don't exist."

As you can see, with は, the emphasis is more on whether or not it exists, while が emphasizes the thing which is or isn't exists.

January 9, 2018
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