- Forum >
- Topic: Japanese >
- "十二時ごろに食べます。"
"十二時ごろに食べます。"
Translation:I eat at around twelve o'clock.
144 Comments
The "at" is totally not required, and it sounds more natural without it. But, hey, it still gave me the point, so whatevs.
The English language is widely used and whether or not it feels more or less natural without the "at" probably depends on where you come from. There's no need to argue you can both be right.
I think the focus of the sentence is important. If the conversation is about eating. "We eat around twelve". If the focus is the time of the break "We eat at around twelve". The "at" implies that the listener should pay attention to the time. Without it the speaker is just subtly being more casual.
I don't think they were arguing, they were doing the same you were. Just saying "at" is no required, thanks to them people can learn that by reading the comments.
Think he just meant that the "at" doesn't appear in Japanese and is something that English can add to sound more natural. It wasn't an argument, both are accepted as he pointed out.
1157
Remember that in English, or at least what I think..
In terms of time, "in" is used for a year, a month, or anything that spans a long time, usually longer than a day. I eat in May, in week 20, or in a leap year.
"On" is used for a day. I sleep on Christmas day, on Saturdays, or on my birthday.
"At" is for a point or part of the day. I wake up at noon, at 10:30, or at sunrise.
So if you don't put an "at", it is probably grammatically incorrect.
Note that this applies only when the focus is the point in time, not the duration or the difference in time with respect to the present or any reference time specified (next week, in three days, etc.).
I might be miserably wrong though.
- 156
As one of my Japanese friends have learned, in English, the main thing is to just mostly get the word order right and we'll automatically fill in the gaps. Atleast for Canada, we are so used to it. I purposely put minor grammar mistakes in there, but if I read that to another English person, they wouldn't even notice. Good luck on your studies.
- 342
All true. However, as you said "at" is for a specific time or place, so for the purposes of this question you should not say "at around". Those two words don't go together. "At" is specific, "around" is general. Something can start "at" a time, or "around" a time. But it can't start "at around". Just as you wouldn't mix other specific and general terms. You wouldn't compare two things by saying they are "kind of exactly the same". They are either similar, or exact. Not both.
- 140
I think you mean that "at" connotes precision, whereas "around" connotes approximation.
That is true, as far as it goes, but what are the parts of speech of those words?
I'm sure that we can both agree that "at" is a preposition. You get up at a time, in a house, on a particular day of the week, and in those phrases, the preposition tells you the relationship of the action to the time, place, and time period in question. But what about "around"? Is that a preposition, too? Can you get up around something?
"Around" certainly can be a preposition. If I tie a piece of rope around a stick, then the word "around" tells me the relationship between the rope and the stick. But is the time that you get up wrapped around something, in a similar way to the rope being wrapped around the stick? And what does this have to do with approximation?
As I see it, "around" in the context of approximation is an adverb, simply meaning "approximately".
If I get up in the morning, then I have got up at some time, whether I happen to know what that time is or not.
If I know precisely when I got up, then I can say, "I got up at precisely 9:00," or whatever the time might have been.
If I don't know exactly when it was, then I can say, "I got up at approximately 9:00." However, the word "approximately" can be replaced by a synonym, as in the following examples:
"I got up at roughly 9:00." "I got up at about 9:00." "I got up at around 9:00."
In the last example, "around" is not a preposition, like it was when we were wrapping rope around sticks. The time of getting up does not encircle the time of 9:00. When I say that I got up at around 9:00, I am saying that I got up at some time, and that that time was approximately - or around - 9:00.
Thank you so much. This is the sort of clear explanations that are very helpful
I would say that using "around" negates the need for using "at" - its almost just implied and I would say that for myself as a native (UK) English speaker it flows better without the "at".
- 25
You are... One does not use both at and around...at implies a specific, while around is rather the opposite.
You are not miserably wrong, but 'at' is a preposition showing a specific time, whereas 'around' is a preposition indicating a general time. You do not need both unless you are specifically talking about the time of eating...it can add focus, but it's not necessary.
For me (native English speaker from Canada) I would say "I wake up around noon" which could be anywhere from about 11:45 am to 12:15 pm (as an example). But if I said "I wake up at noon" that would be 12:00 pm. "Around" implies an approximation whereas "at" is pretty much exact.
I wouldn't use "at around noon" but as someone else said it might be a regional difference. But I certainly wouldn't call it a "typo" to exclude the "at"!
UPDATE: OK, now that I am further in this lesson, I think the "at" is helpful to learn this sentence in Japanese, even though it is not strictly needed in English. Kind of like you would use it for a "direct" translation.
I think it sounds better without "at", but maybe it's just a southern thing.
To my understanding, textbook answer would include "at", but in normal conversation it is omitted due to...laziness? Convenience?
Canadian here and I never hear it with the at + around. The around implies the meaning of at with it, the double preposition is bad grammar.
I am very confused with this entire lesson, can someone please break this sentence down for me?
Duolingo for some reason completely skipped over particles.
Prepositions come after what they modify. For this reason, Japanese is said to be a postpositional language. In this sentence, に is the preposition. It means in or at. So this sentence could be literally translated as "12 o'clock about <=at eat." The subject is implied based on context, so we could translate it as "at about 12 o'clock, [subject] eat(s)." I hope this explains a little!
- 54
It's funny that if you take away ごろ from the sentence, it becomes 。。。ニ時に。
And it shows how two different characters can sound alike.
午後五時ごろに日本語が話せます。I think this is how to say "I will speak Japanese at around 5 pm." The sound "go" is represented by 5 characters! 午後五語ご.
- 1126
That's correct! But there's one minor error in your sentence: you have written 話せます, which means 'to be able to speak Japanese'. So this sentence actually means "I will be able to speak Japanese at around 5 pm tomorrow." (I want to know what learning method that speaker is using! :-) ) To say what you intended to say, you need to change the verb form to 話します: 午後五時ごろに日本語話します。
十二 - twelve
時 - indicates hour
十二時 - twelve o'clock
ごろ - at around
十二時ごろ - at around twelve o'clock
に - indicates time
食べます - to eat (formal form)
食べる - to eat (informal form)
Then:
十二時ごろに食べます - I eat at around twelve o'clock. (Formal form)
十二時ごろに食べる - I eat at around twelve o'clock (informal form)
Not quite. に does not signify time; it can be used with places as well. Rather it is a preposition (technically a postposition) which here means "at". (When used with a point in time, such as twelve o'clock -- when used with a day it would of course be "on", and with a month "in", etc. It can also mean other things in other contexts, because preposition use is generally not parallell between languages,)
ごろ - around 十二時ごろ - around twelve o'clock に - at (for time) 十二時ごろに - at around twelve o'clock
So, you can use に for at/on/in kinda for things other than times? Huh, would be nice if the tips and tricks section mentioned that instead of just classifying it for time.
I've heard this sentence before:«（あなたは)上手に話しますね。»[(Anata wa) jōzu ni hanashimasu ne.], meaning 'You speak well, right'. I'm not sure how the に particle works here, so a tips/tricks would be awesome Duo.
上手 is a な adjective, dropping the ending な and adding に makes it an adverb. (With い adjectives you turn the い into a く to make it an adverb)
So 上手に話します is "skillfully speak", or if you want to keep the in/at connection for に, "In skill you speak"
He was breaking the sentence and not explaing all the meanings of all the words. In this sentence, に indicates that the verb will happen in that time.
- 193
I read in the comments for another lesson that the default subject is me, meaning, if the subject is not specified and is not implied by context, then I'm talking about myself. It would be nice to have a confirmation though.
i think that's true in most cases, if the topic isn't set to something else. for example if you start a conversation about the weather and say that "it's good" , "it" would be the weather in that case.. this is a bad example
Para los que hablan español (including those who knows it), les recomiendo ver estos vídeos para que comprendany refuerzen el uso de la partícula "に":
Primer vídeo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkXOE4t-1ss
Segundo vídeo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUiMDl6DxbA
Tercer vídeo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHDt8_JMwMs&t=
Recuerden verlo en ese orden en el que pongo los enlaces. El hombre explica todo detalladamente. Les recomiendo su que canal, que habla sobre el idioma japonés.
Can anyone explain the pronounciation rule for "eat" here? It sounds like "tabe", but the first character sounds completely different when i click on it
Here you have found a kanji in the wild, with an accompanying hiragana. In the dictionary you'll find kanji have multiple pronunciations, in two groups. I'm not super familiar with the groups, but you can kind of think of it like "first Kanji", "other kanji".
Kanji often have multiple pronunciations, most commonly one derived from the Chinese name for the kanji character and one (or more) derived from the Japanese word for the concept written by the kanji. Duolingo gives one pronunciation in the "hint" but it may not be the one used in the sentence. The hint tells us this kanji is default pronounced "shoku" (I think) but as part of the verb "to eat", it's pronounced "ta", to form "tabe".
There are different readings for kanji depending on context. Chinese origin, Japanese origin (onyomi and kunyomi); in most cases though a Kanji's name (like the letter M in English, is called "em") is different than its reading (ie. M => "mmm"). Also, the reading in vocabulary is different depending on context yes, but also grammatical placement. For example, I've noticed that in the majority of cases the onyomi pronunciation is used for compound kanjis whereas the kunyomi is often used when a kanji stands alone with hiragana to form a vocab word. This is not a set rule though ;).
When I took my Japanese class in college we were taught that you couldn't just say 食べます in its own without a direct object. You had to be eating something you couldn't just say "I eat" or "I ate" abstractly like that. So, I'm a little confused why this sentence has no direct object?
We don't specify the subject of the sentence (because Japanese often does not )so why should I be marked wrong for translating it as "you eat at around 12 o'clock "? Duo insists it must be I.
Because in Japanese, unless specifically mentioned otherwise, the subject of the sentence is the person speaking. That's why you can generally omit 'watashi wa' so often.
So in this case you translate it with the implied 'watashi wa' into 'I eat at 12 o'clock".
The subject is implied in the Japanese sentence, so it could be translated as "I/you/he/she/it/we/they". Report it.
"I eat around noon" is acceptable for this, as well. That's how I translated it, and it gave it to me. 頑張って、皆さん！
I can indeed be we eat, if 'we' is implied. This also depends on the social status of your counterpart.
The subject is implied in the Japanese sentence, so it could be translated as "I/you/he/she/it/we/they".
- 1257
What's the difference between "juni ji" and "rei ji"? I've seen Duolingo use both when referring to 12 o'clock.
十二時 juu-ni ji - 12:00
零時 rei ji - 0:00
Both could mean "midnight" depending on if you're using a 12-hour or 24-hour clock.
If you're using a 12-hour you'd probably use 午前AM or 午後PM to distinguish whether you mean noon or midnight.
- 173
I'm guessing 十二 is used when not stating midnight or noon, whereas 零 is usually used along with 午前 or 午後.
i'm not a native speaker, but i'm pretty sure that this would be a proper way to say it. This is what i typed, and was marked wrong
Edit: i didn't know about the "usually written in kana" thing on jisho, my bad
It is correct but it is more commonly written in kana alone. This sentence is also from the original tree that did not go beyond a few N4 level kanji and this kanji is N3 level. If you hit the report button on the question it will be reviewed by the contributors and can be added as an answer.
yeah i understand that now. searching on jisho it says
Usually written using kana alone
thanks for pointing that out ^_^
When I do １２時ごろに食べます I get it wrong. Is using numbers for times like this wrong?
numerals are used in these situations often in Japanese for shorthand, but this skill is specifically about teaching you the numbers and telling time so writing them in arabic numerals kind of defeats the purpose of translating. If they ask you to translate "10" into Japanese, typing "１０" shouldn't be acceptable; even if they do use the numerals in Japan, it doesn't show that you know the actual Japanese numbers they are trying to teach you.
Additionally: given that this is on the discussion page for the "Translate from Japanese to English" question, you typed this for a listening question? Those even more so won't accept it since they are auto-generated from the lesson's sentences and will only accept the very specific way that sentence is written when being taught. Alternate answers can't be added by contributors for them.
The program actually pushes to more kanji rather than having the roman number.
This is a question for English native speakers. It'd be very helpful if you could answer.
What is the difference between "at about" and "at around"?
In this circumstance there's no difference. If it marked you wrong, report it.
Can't understand why is "ni" used as particle and not "wo" or "ga". I am having trouble with particles... Could someone help me plis?
"Ni" here means "at", as in "I eat at twelve o'clock". In grammatical terms, it's part of an adverbial (When do you eat?). "Wo" is used for the object (What do you eat? I eat rice. "Rice" is the object.) "Ga" is used for the subject, if it is not the topic (Who ate the rice? I ate it. "I" is the subject (and "rice" is the topic).).
Here's a super helpful article on 'wa' and 'ga': https://8020japanese.com/wa-vs-ga/
And here is a more extensive explaination:
wa = TOPIC marker. It indicates WHAT you are talking ABOUT.
ga = SUBJECT marker. It indicates WHAT/WHO is DOING something.
wo = OBJECT marker. It indicates WHAT/WHO something IS BEING DONE TO.
ni = WHEN something is being done.
he = WHERE something is being done.
There are exceptions and variations, of course. For example, 'wa' and 'ga' are often confused because the subject is generally also the topic; (I think) 'ni' and 'he' can be prepositions for other things than time and place; and for some reason I've been told that particles DON'T come before VERBS.
Hope this helps! Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong! ^w^
Because kanji can have several readings and pronunciation based on their context. This is because they often come from Chinese originally, and the Chinese reading, Onyomi, might sometimes be used rather than the Japanese reading, or Kunyomi. Regardless of reading, they are often linked by the concept, in this case, the concept of eating. 食べ may be pronounced as "tabe", to eat, and also 食どう, "shokudou", or dining room. You can see that both these readings are dealing with the concept of eating, and also why you hear "shoku" when you might have expected to hear "tabe".
Order. If it's 二十, or "two tens (plus zero)", that's twenty, but if it's 十二, or "(one) ten plus two", that's twelve.
For more practice, observe the patterns of even larger numbers: 二百 Is two hundred, 九千 is nine thousand, 一万 is 10,000, 一万千 (one ten thousand plus one thousand) is 11,000, and finally: 二万三千四百五十六 is 23,456. Two ten-thousands plus 3 thousands plus 4 hundreds plus 5 tens plus 6 ones. Note how each decimal digit has its own character.
It must be 20. I don't know why they pronunce it like juuni when the kanji of 2 and kanji of 10 means 20. But they wrote 10 and 2 and it means 12.
If it's written in Japanese with the 10 (十) before the 2 (二), it's a 12 (十二). If the 2 is before the 10, it's a 20 (二十).
を marks the direct object in most cases. に is used here, to indicate a certain point in time. As the time is not which is eaten, it cannot be used with the particle を here.
Why it's ます and not います? I get really confused with this, in some phrases is imasu and others masu...
You seem to have the katakana "ni" ニ there instead of the kanji 二 "2"
There's a slight visual difference depending on the font but the kanji is a bit taller ニ二
Based on context. You would never see the katakana ニ thrown randomly in there without it being part of a word with other katakana. Like how in English you would never look at the "I" in "I like sushi" and think it was a lower-case L or the number 1 instead.
れい means zero, 十二 means 12
On a 24-hour clock 00:00 is midnight, the start of the new day, 12:00 is noon, a normal lunch time.
On a 12-hour clock both midnight and noon can be written as 12:00.
So when telling time, both can be 12, but only midnight can be written as zero, れい
Japanese is divided into 3 different character lists. Most japanese people use the more complicated ones,(karagana and kanjii) because hiragana is too simple and doesnt have enough sounds..
All three sets get used regularly in Japanese for different functions.
Each set of characters uses the same sounds; one does not have more sounds than another. Hiragana and Katakana are syllabaries, each symbol standing for a specific syllable, and Kanji are logograms, each symbol holding a specific meaning.
Hiragana is the base system that is used in grammar (conjugations, particles, etc). It is also common to use for certain expressions こんにちは is always written in hiragana rather than it's kanji counterpart in order to distinguish it for its greeting rather than its kanji meaning 今日 "today".
Katakana is used largely for loan words and for adding emphasis. It also may be used in common simple words with complex kanji (most animal names will be written in katakana rather than kanji) because it is easier to write.
Hiragana and Katakana are like the capital and lowercase versions of the alphabet, you have "a" to "A" and " あ" to "ア"
Kanji is a much larger set of characters. These are used for their meaning and can convey multiple sounds within a single character. These are used for most nouns, adjective and verb bases. There are so many homophones in Japanese that they are necessary to convey intended meaning and where one word starts and another ends since Japanese doesn't use spaces between words.
All three are used in specific ways that allow sentences to be understood without making an awful word soup.
(that aside I'm not sure who you're responding to here, it doesn't seem relevant to the comment this is in reply to...?)
So ごろ is always with に behind it when you're talking about doing something at that time?
ごろ: "(approximate) time; around; about; toward". Use it after a time, but before the に to indicate an approximate time frame.
If you put に before ごろ, would it still make sense? I know that both should be placed after the time, but what is the level of importance relative to each other?
I have been using kanji when ever possible because I believe it adds depth to your writing, but in this example I was not able to use the kanji 頃. It counted "十二時頃に食べます。" wrong and told me to write "十二時ごろに食べます。" although the kanji is usually pronounced 'koro' according to Google translate 'goro' and 'koro' seem to be used interchangeably (ex. https://www.japanesepod101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=797 ) but also according to Google translate it appears both sentences are pronounced 'Jūnitoki-goro ni tabemasu.'. My question is if there is a difference between '頃' and 'ごろ' like there is between 'ください' and '下さい' (one of which is used for non-tangible requests and the latter being for physical requests.). The previously linked article seems to only be for the distinction between 'ごろ' and 'ころ' in spoken Japanese and at that only even tenancies for pronunciations.
ころ・ごろ when meaning "around, about" is most commonly written in kana alone. It is a suffix and many suffixes tend to prefer their kana version to the kanji.
You'll see the kanji in nouns like 頃おい kooroi - time/period/days, 頃刻 keikoku - a short period, or 頃日 keijitsu - recently/these days
You can see its entry for it on Jisho
(and best to avoid google translate for a pronunciation guide, its automated system is not good at distinguishing context and grammar when kanji have multiple different sounds)
I'm confused. It rejected my answer but I can't find the mistake. Here is my answer (copied and pasted) : 十ニ時ごろに食べます. Can you help me to find the problem? Is it the kanji for 2?
Yes, it appears you used the katakana "ni" ニ instead of the kanji for two ニ Though they look very similar, they are not interchangeable ニ二
- 424
So just to make sure I am understanding these lesons correctly, would the following also be correct: 十二時 ごろにテーブル へ 食べます. So this translates to "At around 12 o'clock, I eat at the table."
Almost! You would use で to mark the location of action for "at the table". ( へ is a movement particle like "towards" but there is no movement verb being used)
- 424
Thanks for the help! So if he sentence was something like "At around 12 o clock, I got to the kitchen to eat". That would use the "he" practical?
Sorry for I'm not a native english speaker, is the "at" necessary in this sentence?
- 173
Here in Australia, it's not; can't speak for the rest of the world. I would say that it would be considered a colloquial (slang) phrasing and not technically grammatically correct, but it is common (here at least).
This must be ..I "will" eat around 12 o'clock. (Formal) Tabemasu- future tense(will) Tabete imasu- present tense Tabemashita-past tense
Same way! The context usually gives the information about whether it is "I or "We" or whatever. But if you had to say "We" specifically, you could also add 私たちは at the beginning.
Because you added the verb "go", it is incorrect. Your sentence would look more like «十二時ごろ食べに行きます。» Notice the inclusion of 行き
From what I've learned so far, に can be used as a time reference, to say "per ____", and also to say that you are going somewhere.
In this example, 十二時ごろに食べます, the particle に is used to say that the action is being done at this time (around 12:00).
に can also be used to say that you do something per week/month/etc. If you were to say that you go to school five times a week, you'd say 一週間に5回学校へ行きます.
It can also be used to say that you are going somewhere. Ex: 学校に行きます。
But 12:00 without an am or pm indicator could also be midnight
Since you were given a specific time in the sentence it's best to translate that specific time; the actual word "midday" is not present.
So is ごろ usable in terms of space as well? Like "around here/there", or is it just for time?
"At around" is incorrect English. One does an action either AT a time or AROUND a time. Not both.
- 140
But how could you get up around 9:00? Your getting up would have to somehow encircle the time of 9:00, which would be tricky, especially considering that time seems only to be one-dimensional and therefore cannot hold circles. :P
Would "have lunch" not be an appropriate translation of "食べ" ? Or is it eat in general and there is another voice for "have lunch"?
- 173
食べ is generally "to eat". In English, "I will eat at 12:00" may imply you'll be eating lunch, however, you may be having a late breakfast or a snack. "I will have lunch at 12:00" is explicitly stating that lunch is what you will be eating.
can ごる be used to describe location if someone asks where something is? is it only for estimation for time and numbers
- 173
When I look it up in Takoboto (Japanese dictionary for Windows), the translation is: (approximate) time, around, about, toward, suitable time (or condition), time of year, season
I would say that means it is specifically for time.
In the following sentences, how many are correct? 十二時ごろに食べます。 十二時ごろへ食べます。
十二時ごろに食べます is the correct answer and the one provided by Duo
十二時ごろへ食べます is incorrect; へ is used to mark a direction of movement and cannot be used to mark time.
'At' is not used in front of around when you speak english why is it a typo???
- 173
Yes, it is, but it is often left out. Technically speaking, leaving out "at" is a colloquialism/shortcut.
- 202
Honestly it feels unnatural not to include an object for 食べます. Given that ご飯 is a word we have learned previously. Can a native JP speaker comment on this?
So I typed out "十二時ごろに食べます。" and it says that it's wrong. I've looked over every character and can't find anything wrong with it. Am I missing something? Am I blind? Is Duolingo punishing me for not using the word bank?
- 557
Frequent error with answers from tiles: it complains about an extra space when you use the tiles for "o'" and "clock" but that is the only way to complete the sentence using tiles. I've noticed the same issue with "did" "n't" given as two tiles.
Reporting this when I see it, but it's not clear whether the information transmitted with the report will be comprehensible, since I doubt the tiles will be shown.
I have not seen this kind of issue in the other language trees.
- 185
I answered with "十二時ごろに食べ へ ます. Why is this wrong? I thought this sentence would use the へ particle.
- 557
To quote Swisidniak:
へ is used to mark a direction of movement and cannot be used to mark time.
