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- "That person is her grandfath…
"That person is her grandfather."
Translation:あの方は彼女のおじいさんです。
64 Comments
I just took this question and failed it as the answer it had as correct was おおぜいの人が亡くなりました。Which means, many people died.
@NicholasHe245079 "Which means, many people died." -- in truth, it would seem better suited to translate おおぜいの人が 亡くなりました as
"Many people have passed away"
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This video @15:53 teaches what native Japanese say about DEATH in a slew of diverse circumstances.
I just got this too! its the very first time i see a question err completely!
方 should be read カタ. FWIW Duolingo makes similar mistakes with Mandarin polyphones (characters with multiple readings) all the time. Example: 得 (de5 vs. dei3).
I hear it when selecting word tablets as single, but it must be known that it will be different in different contexts.
Duolingo is NOT mistaken, imho :)
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Fernanor (last comment in link below) and myself agree, but the MOD comment (ehartz) and IsolaCiao also maintains that it is, indeed, a technical problem -- Read it here: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/35408517?comment_id=35411548
However, Fernanor maintains, as I do, that we can learn from this "mental juggling" and I wrote elsewhere about these readings they "intentionally differ to teach Japanese learners to recreate natural Japanese instincts when approaching their native written language."
I was unaware 方 could be used for people. You learn something new all the time.
I know it's been a while since your question, and please forgive me if I'm incorrect, but it is my understanding that あちら is related more to direction rather than designating a specific object or person.
For example, you might say that "The bank is over there" utilizing あちら like so:
「銀行はあちらです。」
Using あちら to denote who someone's grandfather is doesn't sound quite right to me. I think you might get away with something like "Her grandfather is in that direction" as an acceptable translation or maybe even "That one is her grandfather" as you point out to someone in a line of people, given that someone has just asked you to identify her grandfather.
あの方 (in my opinion) gives a real feeling of "that specific person" to me. You might use it to quickly point out your friend's grandfather from a distance to a separate friend who has yet to meet him.
Please take this with several grains of salt as I am still just learning, but from what I can tell, あの方 does appear to be the preferred way to say "that person (away from both the speaker and the listener)."
@RobDock Analysis of あの方 and あちらの方 seems to be situated in a different discourse with different variables.
Primo (not my Spanish cousin!): confirmation of validity of the 2nd grammatical construct, additionally to 6 upvotes to Sean_Roy], is 42 upvotes to KeithWong's posting:
あちら is "over that way" - over that direction where it can point to a place or a person as in "あちらの方（かた）" "あちらのお客様（きゃくさま）"
Secondo :) The answer of TyrantRC to the question following is the locus of discussion:
Question: I'm confused on why あの is being used here. If we are using 方, wouldn't it be more polite/correct to use あちら.
TyrantRC's Answer: あの方 is very similar to あちら、it's even more polite than saying あの人。This comes from 丁寧語【ていねいご】and it's used to show respect to someone that's out of your in-group or to a superior. In this case, is probably used because of the grandfather's age.
It seems that あちら implies that both the speaker and the listener know the person in question.
@Guillaume idky, but your post makes me laugh! i am probably wrong, but it seems ridiculous to think あちら could imply that. Oh!!! i know why! haha, I remember a prior lesson where they ask WHO IS あちら方? haha, so that is the logic to my brain's absurdity laughing (ever read, Bergson's "Le Rire"????) thank you!
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@hannaBanana:
If the "logic-absurd-laughter" were based on true facts, it would be understandable (even if false, understandable), but
the point is that Guillaume sees the implication in this lesson, not compared to a different context. So, it is ridiculous "en soi"
@Sean_Roy after marti_MG post down, it is あちらの方 as problematic and あの方 is better, for translating "That person". Sometime in previous lessons, comments report the kanji version also not acceptable, but kana is [thanks to Korrigan_ analyse of TyrantRC's answer below]. So these 2 reasons are my revised opinion, informed by the below discussions.
祖父 has many readings, I believe when it's used in お祖父さん it's read おじいさん. However kana is more common.
I have also been marked wrong for using あちらの方. A comment below contrasted あの方 and あちら, but does someone have info on あちらの方 ? I would have thought あちら was a more polite way of saying "that", but maybe it just sounds weird ?
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your question "あの方 and あちら, but does someone have info on あちらの方 ? " is answered by TyrantRC and Keith Wong, which are cited by hannaBanana's 1st post just above yours.
Ah, I read that comment but it didn't really make it clear − I think TyrantRC compared あの方 and あちら to あの人, without adressing あちらの方, and Keith Wong seemed to say it was a valid construct, but since Duo doesn't accept it, I wondered if it was actually used or not.
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Ok, I see now. Thank you for clarifying. Based on that, I think that since あちら is "over that way" (KW's valid construct) and would be translated differently than our example sentence, which asks for "That person" あの方, I would venture to cite this last part as the reason for rejecting the answer. "Cette personne" あの方 et non "la personne la-bas" あちらの方. Both are used and the comparison of degrees of politeness 丁寧語【ていねいご】, as you pointed out, only distinguished between あの人 and those two answers. Enfin, il s'agit d'une traduction plus précise depuis la langue anglaise, donc la réponse de TyRC n'en est pas une. Cela parle bien d'autres choses -- qqch q g pas vu à la première lecture! Grazie mille
Why would "sofu" not be correct here instead of "ojiisan"? I get that the latter is more polite, but what else in the sentence signals that we're working on that level of politeness?
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You only use sofu/sobo when talking about your own family. Its a level of familiarity that you dont use with other peoples families. I hope I explained that well enough. If someone has a more complete answer, I would like to know too.
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I think the politeness level here falls under the broad category of in-groups and out-groups, which is a huge thing in Japanese language as well as culture. It's way too big a topic to attempt to cover in a comment here even if I was a Japanese culture expert, which I am not. If you're interested, searching "uchi-soto" turns up many relevant results.
Just in my own experience, I've found it pretty convenient to have different terms that imply whether you're talking about your own family or someone else's. It lets you avoid having to shoehorn extra pronouns into your Japanese sentences, which gets awkward and unnatural real fast, while still being clear about whose grandpa you're discussing.
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But you can refer to someone else's parents as 「父親」 or 「母親」? As in, 「彼女は父親に似ていますか。」?
But this does doesn't apply to 「祖父」 or 「祖母」?
It's indicated by the fact that the grandfather you're talking about is not your own. It's one of those inside/outside words.
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Yeah, そふ does mean grandfather, but I think おじいさん is preferred when discussing someone else's grandfather.
I was taught that when you're discussing your own family members with people outside of your family, you typically would use the shorter terms. When talking about other people's families you should generally use the longer terms because it's more respectful.
Duolingo gave me this: あの人はかのじょのおじいさんです。But I didn't have "人" as an option. I only discovered that I needed to use 方 because of this discussion! I used 男の人, was that so bad?
方 is a more polite way of saying person. 男の人 is specifically "man." You could use that word in a conversation, but Duolingo won't accept it here because it was only asking for "person." Also, it's nice to use 方 here because the person is someone else's grandfather, and also a senior so it's good to respect him.
It seems that duolingo has gotten the answer to this question confused with another. The "correct" answer it gave me not only didn't have the word for grandfather in it, but also used the verb 無くなる or 亡くなる which respectively mean either to disappear/become lost and to die. Also, おおぜい means crowd and so there is no way the question is only addressing one person.
why did i get marked wrong using sofu, instead of ojiisan あの方は彼女の祖父です? was it because everything is in the polite form? and, if so, why should it be in the polite form?
Something is going on with Duolingo today, once again あの方は彼女のおじいさんです Is not accepted even though it the correct and requested answer. 21.01.21
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When clicking on "person" it gives the meanings: 方、人間 (にんげん)、and 人物 (じんぶつ)
人物 = person+thing
I used 女の人 for here, but got flagged wrong and said I should use かのじ. Is there a reason one is right, or is this just software oddness?
From my understanding 女の人 is woman but 彼女 is she or her. So a more accurate translation of the statement would use 彼女
彼女 also means girlfriend, so in this context "he went on a date with his girlfriend" uses 彼女 :)
I had the same question, but if you think about it, it makes sense. その方 means that the person is standing right next to the listener, so it would be extremely rude to call them "that person."
You could also say, “その人はかのじょのそふです“. We do not know where the speaker and the grandfather is in the room and そふ for grandfather could work too. I believe 人 is more casual.
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Epic fail. I have no chance translating when the " correct " answer doesn't answer the question. おおぜいの人がなくなりました。was given as well for me. I think it should be あの人はかのじょのおじいさんです
方 is direction. I think literally this sentence means: that direction is her grandfather
