1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Japanese
  4. >
  5. "The mountain was dangerous i…

"The mountain was dangerous in winter."

Translation:冬の山は危なかったです。

June 7, 2017

34 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SetsuAnaguma

I think "winter mountain" is a better translation of "冬の山". Shouldn't "the mountain in winter" indicating a time frame should be phrased "冬に山は"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kzulu92

Winter mountain is correct in the literal sense, but I wouldn't say winter mountain is a normal expression in English. 冬の山 is a common equivalent for the mountain in winter. Things in Japanese can't always be translated so literally.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rikkapika

You cant use に for ambiguous timeframes like that, or at least, that sounds very weird to me. 冬の山 is more natural, even if it doesnt seem to translate nicely into English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SetsuAnaguma

I am just concerned that "冬の山" can give early learners a misunderstanding of the meaning of the の particle if it gets translated as "in". It makes perfect sense in Japanese, and i to get learners to actually understand Japanese phrasing I think it helps to understand the literal meaning to avoid confusion.

As for the ambiguous time frames, I am not sure I understand not using "に". Maybe it is better to use "で"? For example, "In the summer I play baseball." = "夏で野球をする。" Or would you use に? "夏に。。。"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/telemetry

We're pretty far down the tree here, I think people will have picked up on the usual meanings of の by now!

With prepositions in particular you just have to suck it up and learn that idea x is translated with expression y, and if the closest phrasing in English is 'the mountain in winter' or 'Tokyo at night' or whatever, that's what people should learn.

Duo focuses on technical translation for a lot of grammatical concepts (like expecting certain tenses to show you recognise what's happening, even if another tense is more natural), but for general phrasing it's better to be as natural and accurate as possible. That's what we're aiming for in the end!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan553966

Japanese particles do not have equivalent English meanings, that is, they do not equate to English prepositions. "No" in Japanese does not mean "of, by, in, on, etc." It is understood in Japanese by Japanese without reference to however it might show up in translation. (Simply put, Japanese don't have to learn English before they can understand Japanese.)

"No" does at least two things. It marks a noun as being subordinately related to another noun which is the head of it's structure. It can also nominalize a verb but that is not what we have here.

In "fuyu no yama" the "no" tells you that "fuyu" is in a subordinate relationship with "yama". That is, "yama" is described in some way by "fuyu." Since this is not likely a place name, "winter mountain" isn't a very good translation. Of all the possible ways of relating "winter" to "mountain," "mountain in winter" makes good sense.

Apply the same analysis to "watashi no hon" and you get "book OF me > My book. "


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rikkapika

I would say "夏、野球をする”. Alternatively, there is "になる” ”夏になって、野球をします” When it becomes summer, I play baseball.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan553966

"Ni" doesn't modify nouns. "No" makes "fuyu" relate broadly to "yama" the headword of the structure. As long as this is maintained, the translation is dependent on context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VicBal

You're either a genius or you've been learning japanese for a long time now. It's the first time we see the use of the no particle that way in this course. It doesn't make sense unless you have seen it before. Don't lie.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan553966

Not necessarily. Prepositional phrases in English can be attributive either to nouns or verbs. "Lady in distress, books on the shelf, flowers in (the) spring, etc., " all modify nouns. Conversely, "put on the shelf, plant in the spring, labor in distress" all modify verbs.

Japanese particles follow different rules from English prepositions. の relates to nouns or nominalizes. に relates to verbs. The particles mark grammatical relationships that need to be translated into English according to context and idiom.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rejsmiddy

Fuyu no yama is understandable in Japanese and if translated to the best possible English means the mountain in winter. However, this whole program has been based on literal translation so it might be wise to reconsider this sentence combination.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TacoMagoo

So can I phrase it like: 冬には山が危なかったです。? Because to me the thing that’s dangerous is the fact that it’s in winter. I feel like that should be the subject. I mean obviously duo won’t accept it...but any other officianados out there who can verify my sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andjustzen

I'd say no. Can't properly articulate why as I've never studied Japanese grammar structure, but as a native speaker it doesn't work.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/e.freed.2432

Should 山は冬であぶなかったです also be accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rikkilt

so adjectivekatta desu is the same as adjective deshita?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarudoshi

"i-adjectives", such as abunai, become past tense by dropping the i and adding katta desu.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sho_Japan

i think 冬の山は危ないところでした is more natural


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andjustzen

そうかも、だが所 implies "place", when that wasn't used in the original


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexolas

can i just say that's a really cool way of phrasing that


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RCLNerd

冬の山は危なかったです。


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alenbi

I tried 冬には山が危なかったです and i don't understand where my mistake is.

Should i report it or did i make a mistake?

Thanks in advance for your help and your answer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TwisTurtle1

The English sentence is written in the past tense, but so far as I understand it, the Japanese sentence is in the present tense. Or have I just completely misunderstood how past and present tense is expressed in Japanese?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lloyd76445

I believe with some adjectives the way they end makes it past tense. I think for certain verbs if it ends in -katta desu, then it's still past tense, but for others, deshita is the correct form? I could be wrong though


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elizadeux

The Japanese sentence is the past tense of an -i adjective.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lloyd76445

Fuyu no yama wa abunakatta desu.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/parasology

Difference between 冬の山 and ふゆの山?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben813848

Same thing, 冬 is just the kanji for ふゆ. https://jisho.org/search/fuyu


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChiNane

Anyone else thinking the type splitting for katta is consistently stupid? If you at least split after the adjective stem and gave an option of katta vs i, we'd have to think a bit.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChiNane

Tyle, not type.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ixdxkx

「冬で山が危なかったです。」should be correct, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chungmcl

山は冬に危ないでした Why wouldn't this work?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ToddKedes

I wrote: [ふゆやまはあぶなかった]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ToddKedes

冬山は危なかった


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FernandoBsMz

Ok, so after reading the comments, it seems that the english translation was huh... 'leading' into another meaning of the same words. That is: This sentences is talking about [the mountain in winter], whereas many of us thought about the [danger in winter] (This for the exersice of translating from english to japanese, by the way). I think I understand well enough my problem but now I have the doubt: How would we phrase this in japanese to say that the danger is the season more than the location? In other words, how do we 'unrelate' the winter and the mountain? I hope this makes sense.

Learn Japanese in just 5 minutes a day. For free.