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  5. "午後十一時にねます。"

"午後十一時にねます。"

Translation:I go to sleep at eleven P.M.

June 8, 2017

71 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RemRengvr

Ffs duo where is the vocab, the conjugation, why am i left to guess at this sentence structure with no guidance this is massively frustrating


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EvilAshe

I've always felt that this has been a major problem with the Duolingo fail-to-learn (or learn by trial-and-error) model. And Japanese, with its multi-tiered writing systems, uniquely highlights this failing. Fortunately, I have prior significant experience with the language, but I can see how this would be truly bewildering and confusing to the novice.

I think it's very bad course design to introduce hiragana, kanji, and katakana all incompletely mixed in with each other -- one thing at a time. That's how my Japanese college classes did it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lethal_gnome

I honestly thought the course was decent up until the time skills. Now I just feel extremely confused.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnthonyPie388150

we started with hiragana, next was katakana at the end of the year, and we only learned a couple of Kanji the entire first year.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/V2Blast

That seems like a very slow course. Was it middle/high-school level? In my college course, I'm pretty sure we learned the hiragana script in the first week or two, katakana in the next week or two, and kanji gradually throughout the course as we learned vocabulary.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Olivia833954

Even JLPT N5 is 103 kanji...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leonardo756879

I find it usefull and I'm a novice. You shouldn't use it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/themarkhc

Anything is better than nothing. But this is not a good course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John857569

I did see another comment that said children in Japan learn hiragana first which is why furigana exists. So its not all bad. But yeah, you miss a lot when you don't know the full breakdown and might get incorrect practices stuck in your head because of it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DamoTheExemplar

I don't like how Duo jumps straight to sentence guessing without any knowing of what meaning a word has, no knowing of how sentences are set out and no practise on how you could ACTUALLY write these words in Hiragana, Katakana or Kanji. This seriously needs to be dealed with. Just learning words straight away and going into sentence reading so fast is not a great way to teach learners, in my opinion anyways...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chobbit

I am on Android, which doesn't have it... but was it covered in the lesson intro on the website? (I didn't know about those intros for about 2 months of practice).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhilNolan1

Android doesn't have what?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chobbit

Ah sorry, Japanese isn't on the Web yet. For the other languages, if you go to the desktop site and click on one of the topics (Time 1, etc.), it brings you to a page that describes what the lessons will cover. This page is not available on the Android app, so I keep forgetting about it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lucaspossatti

It doesn't. I wish so much they would add this feature to the Android app as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmorenbe

I didn't know either!!!!!! They should at least tell us we could take a look there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TrevorTheWest

It is a bit disappointing, but I only use Duolingo as supplement and review. Tae Kim's or a myriad of other guides and resources are better for basic or grammar learning, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JasonH565

午後十一時に寝ます。

午後 = PM (post meridiem, after noon)

十一 = 10 + 1 = 11

時 = time/hour, there is a sun radical on the left and temple on the right, just imagine a temple ringing their bell to tell the time based on the position of the sun

に = particle, used for telling time

寝ます = sleep, conjugated from 寝る


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ishana92

is there a difference between sleep (i sleep at night) and go to sleep (i go to sleep at 11)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

Personally, I don't think there is.

However, you could argue that "to go to sleep" puts more emphasis on (the decision to make) the transistion from other actions to falling asleep. On the other hand, "to sleep" refers more to the act of being asleep itself. I'm pretty sure 寝る is used for both of those cases in Japanese.

There are also other, less frequently used phrasal verbs like 眠りに落ちる (nemuri ni ochiru) or 眠りつく (nemuri tsuku) which are more for inadvertently falling asleep.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ishana92

so in japanese, both of those usages (transition and act itself) use the same verb 寝る ?-


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

As far as I know, yes.

The difference is pretty subtle in English anyway, in my opinion. For example, "I go to sleep at 11" and "I sleep for 8 hours" seem the most natural way to say it, but "I sleep at 11" and "I go to sleep for 8 hours" aren't necessarily incorrect either, right? They don't really mean anything different unless you're being super pedantic/literal.

To my knowledge, Japanese doesn't have a way to make that distinction, subtle as it is. You could say 寝る準備をする (neru junbi wo suru) meaning "to get ready to go to sleep" if you wanted to highlight the transition, but that's a different phrase in English too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/trishka9

"I sleep at 11" and "I go to sleep for 8 hours" both sound wrong to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

@oErP8 sure, but why? And would you have noticed that they sound "wrong" if we weren't directly comparing them? And what flavor/flavour of English do you speak? (Because that might make a difference too).

I think "I go to sleep for 8 hours" is a bit of a stretch too, but "I sleep at 11" is actually just as natural as "I go to sleep at 11" for me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/trishka9

JoshuaLore, it seems to me that going to sleep is an action that takes place at one specific time, whereas sleep is a thing that occurs over more than one specific moment in time.

I guess I'd have to hear both sentences in context to understand how they were being used before I could comment further.

I speak American English (from the Midwest) - sure, that could play a part.

(Sorry I'm replying to your earlier comment - there wasn't an option to reply to your most recent.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KazuriahBu

How do you say those pm kanji in hiragana? Also i said i go to sleep at 8 which imo should be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

午後 = ごご

"I go to sleep at 8" should not be accepted because Duo is a feedback-based learning system. Since you didn't include "pm" in your answer, it thinks you don't understand that 午後 = "pm".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deivisony

But it said 11 why writting 8 is correct too? I don't know yours time convention sorry


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

That is a great point. I didn't even realize... but the reasoning about 午後 still holds whether it's 11 or 8.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jasonjason13

What is 'conjugated' mean?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

When talking about grammar, "conjugation" means changing the form of a verb to show voice, mood, tense, etc. An example of this in English is going from present tense ("sleep") to past tense ("slept").

In Japanese, conjugation is used for showing voice, mood, tense, and register (i.e. politeness) of verbs. Adjectives are also conjugated (that is, changed) to show tense, and to an extent, register.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/smackyding

Thanks for the kanji in sleep!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/antoniojack

What exactly is the word for "sleep"???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/toridomi

Here its used as a verb so its at the end as ねます, which is conjugated from 寝る(ねる, to go to bed/lie down).

Theres also to fall asleep which is 眠る(ねむる)

Sleep as a noun is すいみん and ねむり! Im not entirely sure of the difference in usage between them as nouns however...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alcedo-Atthis

The difference between 眠り (ねむり) and 睡眠 (すいせん) is just a matter of vocabulary.

As a general rule: when there are two versions of a word, the kanji compound is a fancier (and thus less common) way of saying the same, since those are mostly all borrowed from ancient Chinese, or equally complex neologisms. You'll find them in the more highbrow novels/writings and (research) papers.

The simpler Japanese on the other hand, like the 'actual verb' ねむる (as opposed to the noun-verb すいみんをとる) is the written form of Japan's natively spoken language back when their writing systems developed. These are thus (usually) the more commonly used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Edikan2

Damn, the voice is so fast it's making my head spin.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pawe249358

yes, compared to other lessons this is spelled way to fast


[deactivated user]

    I would like for there to be an option to have the voice say the sentence slower.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lilly426709

    Wait it's definitely 11 p.m but was corrected saying the right answer is 23 o'clock...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mimmiroo

    Same for me. 23:00 IS 11 so we're right, just dont understand why 11 pm is not an accepted answer.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marshallward

    Sheep should autocorrect to sleep.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alcedo-Atthis

    Actually, I think accidentally texting "OK, I'm going to sheep now" could end up pretty funny.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JasminBieb

    I think that they should habe introduced the verbs first in their dictionary forms instead of exposing us to them for the first time conjugated


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    Ehh... I kind of agree. It would require restructuring basically the whole course though, since they would have to teach you about how to conjugate different verbs before they could introduce any sentences.

    I think ます and ません are largely equivalent to the dictionary form and ない, so teaching those forms as verbs on their own (as in, as vocab) would have been better than throwing them at you in sentences straight away.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LanvinSean

    Perhaps this could be seen at the "tips and notes" section before starting a lesson on the early lessons.

    Also, ます and ません are both conjugations of Japanese verbs (more specifically, its polite form). The dictionary form would have to be the root, or unchanged, form of the verb.

    食べる、食べます、食べません。 飲む、飲みます、飲みません。 行く、行きます、行きません。


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanWeaver4

    23:00 and 11 are the same time


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lriche0002

    I'm aware they are the same time, my question is why was this wrong.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/trishka9

    It's not wrong - looks like a bug which has since been fixed.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Xirx

    The audio's way too fast for someone thinking about going to sleep. Or, say, someone trying to learn the language. Plus it dinged me for writing "11pm" without a space. Tried to flag it but those weren't options.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hamasfutaki

    Gogo ju ichi ji ni nemasu

    gogo = p.m. ju ichi = 10 and 1 (eleven) ji = o'clock ni (に) = particle nemasu = sleep


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dexxa1

    what if duo interrupted with useful notes instead of "great work".. i feel id learn so much faster..


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SherylHohman

    go into settings...
    You can turn that useless, annoying interruption off !!❗

    But I get your suggestion: explanations would be nice.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnchfr

    Gogo you too late to party! Gosen come on in!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kai14432

    Is it more common to use kanji for 午後/午前? I thought most people wrote it in hiragana. Or maybe that's what I got from Genki I.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    In my experience, kanji is much more commin for both of those. I don't mean to sound rude, but Genki 1 is elementary Japanese after all.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Imtired7

    HOW doeS 午後 go to ''aternoon' tO 'evening''?????????


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robbadob

    午後 goes from meaning 'afternoon' to meaning 'evening' because 11:00 pm (23:00) is not in the afternoon. These are kind of arbitrary, but in general:

    in the morning: 00:01-11:59
    at noon: 12:00
    in the afternoon: 12:01-16:59
    in the evening: 17:00-21:59
    at night: 22:00-23:59
    at midnight: 00:00

    This has nothing to do with Japanese 午前 (am) and 午後 (pm), though.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/soldat_der_udssr

    Can we say 二十三時にねます instead of this?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    In practice, yes you can and you would be understood, but in theory, for these learning exercises, 二十三時 = "23:00" whereas 午後十一時 = "11:00 pm", because Duo is specifically trying to teach you the Japanese words for "am" and "pm".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robbadob

    Is 二十三時 or 午後十一時 more common usually?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    They're both fairly common. In my experience, I would say 二十三時 sounds more like something you're likely to hear in announcements at the airport for example, whereas 午後十一時 (or even just 十一時, leaving the 午後 part to context) is maybe more common in everyday conversation.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alephalpha911

    Why is "午後十一時に寝ます" wrong?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    Because Duo isn't setup to allow characters that haven't been taught yet. 寝ます is pronounced ねます, so for beginners (even young native Japanese speakers) who haven't learned the kanji yet, they are equivalent. For more advanced students, ねます might be seen as less specific (there are many more examples where kanji with the same pronunciation have very different meanings), but if you're advanced enough to recognize that problem, you should be advanced enough to figure it out through context anyway.

    Just report it for the course developers to fix.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dimker

    As of now (April 2019) using 寝 is still considered wrong by Duolingo, and there is no way to report it in the listening exercise.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DonnPolzin

    I don't know why it said that my response of "I go to sleep at 11:00PM" was wrong


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mayotheweeb

    Had to answer this at 11pm, is Duo trying to tell me something?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Quia501371

    No fair!! I put at 11 pm I will got to sleep. That doesnt work?? Aw come on!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kosini

    I translated it as "I sleep at 13:00" and it was accepted even though it's a wrong translation.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iamnotapig

    ごごじゅういちじにねます。 Anyone can help me to know what's wrong with this answer?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    There's nothing "wrong" exactly, but Japanese people generally don't use all hiragana (unless they're under around 10 years old). I would say to report it for the course developers to add to the list of acceptable answers, but it's in your, and everyone's, best interests to learn the kanji properly; you'll have to do it eventually.

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