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  5. "二わのとりがそらをとんでいます。"

"二わのとりがそらをとんでいます。"

Translation:Two birds are flying in the sky.

June 8, 2017

81 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zass30

Niwa niwa niwa niwa tori ga imasu!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jansegre

庭には二羽(…?)鳥がいます。


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alcedo-Atthis

The missing ... -> 鶏 (にわとり) = "chicken"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshD939800

庭には二羽鶏がいますよ


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NickeL9740

There should be a の between 二羽 and 鶏.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shirch22

庭には二羽鶏と二羽鳥がいます

庭(garden/yard) には(in the) 二羽(2+counting for birds) 鶏(chicken) と(and) 二羽(same) 鳥(bird(s)) がいます (there are)

There are two chickens and two birds in the garden

That's fun :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

Except that you need の between the numbers and the birds they're modifying.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shirch22

Not necessarily, it works either way.. and here it's just a tongue twister so.. But I guess if you wanted to actually say something like that so that people would understand than adding の would be somewhat helpful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

It's not just being "helpful" it is a grammatical rule that numbers need の to modify nouns in this way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shirch22

Fine you're right. It's just a fun t.twister. don't take it too seriously :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

Only when the counter precedes the noun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marknld

The following sentence was a tongue twister for me for weeks: "on not cold days I work in the garden."

寒くない日は庭で働きます。

さむくないひはにわではたらきます。

The 日は庭で part... my brain just couldn't work it out.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/V2Blast

I think you need a の before にわとり.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erika9205

Very confusing to use half of the kanji for 二羽. could have just used the kanji and written the furigana on top or just use all hiragana or change it to 三わ so that people dont think you meant chicken or yard


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tanshin

Well, it's great practice for understanding context more. After all, we cannot see kanji when someone is speaking.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Glundyn

I'm just glad the comments are around to help me make sense out of quirks like these


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clickonwhatnow

You can, however, ask for clarification. And you'll need to in regular conversation, but "reading for context" only works when one is obviously right, and it's not the case here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YTSChan

I would say this is not happening only in this example. Furigana (i.e. kanji's pronunciation on top) would be a much better way to learn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LanceGiles1

I'm just going through this for review, and the lack of kanji definitely makes it more difficult. Including common kanji with furigana could really improve this course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/B_2_H

羽 was probably omitted due to being a higher level kanji, as compared to 二.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clickonwhatnow

二わ still would have helped, instead of にわ.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

I'm confused - it DOES in fact have 二わ, not にわ. What is the problem?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

The kanji for niwatori is not the same as the counter for birds niwa though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ganipa

Quick question, why is を used here, and not に for "in the sky"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rafy65146

When you perform an action along a certain distance (such as in the sky, on a road or on a walking path) and not in a specific place, を is used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dvkndn

に is more like for destination or target?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

Quibble: I was taught motion verb. I can't think of any other types.

Other English prepositions to flag include across, over, and around.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

Motion verb. 空を飛ぶ 街を歩く = Walk the streets.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/darthoctopus

二羽の鳥が空を飛んでいます


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brice

Can someone at duolingo publish the Joel Ong display settings please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jnantes

niwa no tori ga... "the birds from the garden" are flying in the sky. anyone?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YTSChan

An example why kanji is still used today. Using kanji helps distinguish in these cases. (二羽 vs 庭)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alcedo-Atthis

To be fair to Duo: there is kanji in this sentence. 二 is not the same as hiragana に.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YTSChan

True, but in this case, it is a coincident that 二 is also the Katakana of に. Of course we all know that Katakana will never be used here, but it is still very confusing for new learners.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yourivanovsky

ニわのとりmakes no sense to me. Especially the わの. Can someone explain?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yourivanovsky

Ok, わ is 羽, a counter for birds, apparently. ニ羽の鳥=にわのとり


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Claine15

You are correct. Also rabbits actually due to a quirk of the language


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/floristfawn

I think it's something like.. In Buddhism they weren't allowed to eat meat, with a couple of exceptions like birds.. So they gave rabbits the bird counter to make them "acceptable," too. Lol.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/XRavishX

Ha! That's funny if true. Control through language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John863934

That's also why fish usually isn't considered meat: in olden times, religious fasts were declared where no one was allowed to eat meat. However, this made it hard for fishermen; so fish were permitted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

• 桜肉 for horse

• 牡丹肉 for wild boar


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Humanatee69

Talked to a Japanese friend about this recently. They said its because the ears look like wings and 'wa' is a counter for winged animals.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

講じ付 = an excuse made up to cover up the real reason.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/okottacat

Why doenst Duolingo use furigana? it's even confusing to me, who has learned Japanese for 1 year !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/john534746

I have been here for two years and I am totally confused. These other people that have commented on this are light years ahead of me. I do think that there should be some imput from the web site........jk


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrederickEason

Duolingo was originally programmed with specific languages in mind (Spanish, German, and English were the first), and they've had trouble updating for languages such as Japanese and Chinese. They may also have philosophical reasons relating to design and teaching that make them think kanji with furigana would be a bad idea. Either way, they have yet to implement it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IWantToNap

I kinda wish these questions had more kanji support. Finally started using a Japanese keyboard, and got the answer wrong only because I used the kanji for 鳥 and 空


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

Is - chou an obsolete counter for birds then? As in isseki nichou (two birds with one stone)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alcedo-Atthis

That's not a counter; チョウ is just the onyomi (Sino-Japanese reading, used in combination with other kanji*) of 'bird': 一石二鳥.

*(I know you know, but for those who don't)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaphaelNing

Right. I'd like to add that 一石二鳥 is one of the four-character/kanji idioms (四字熟語), which follow the rules of Classical Chinese, where the use of classifiers (counter words) is not common.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NickeL9740

二羽の鳥が空を飛んでいます。


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chiennt1024

二わのとりがそらをとんでいます。


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dinis Luna

Could 匹 be used for counting birds?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

No, but children use it for all animals.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JovemImortal

Hey guy! If the birds are flying in the sky shouldn't we use the particle で or に?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

を indicates that the bird/s is/are flying through the sky.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/qunibai

i thought niwa is park


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

庭 (にわ)means garden - Duo usually translates it as yard. In this instance however, it is not にわ meaning garden/yard, and it is not にわとり meaning chicken. It is 二 as in the number two plus the suffix ~わ which is a counter used for winged animals (ie. birds). So the にわ used here means two winged animals/birds. 公園(こうえん)means park.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Faramond

「ニ羽鳥が空を飛んでいます。」 ... Is this the correct rendition with kanji?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alcedo-Atthis

It is indeed. (the を has gone missing though)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Faramond

I forgot the「の」

「二羽鳥が空を飛んでいます」


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dear_Deka

Could you teoreticly leave out the とり in this sentence, as it us established that you are talking about birds by useing わ while counting?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

Someone on here commented that it is also the counter used for rabbits - something about their ears being wing-like or something? Perhaps that was their own personal theory on why it was used for rabbits? So とり would help us to know for certain that we were talking about birds not rabbits - also the bit about them flying ; )


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alcedo-Atthis

I don't think it was anyone's personal theory that it's used as a rabbit counter. Under 「羽・わ」the Kouji'en dictionary says: 「鳥や兎などを数える語」, and the Meikyou kokugo dictionary says nearly the same thing:「鳥またウサギを数える語」. As to why exactly this counter is used for both, that's a little more vague.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

I didn't say that ~わ being used as a counter for birds (winged creatures) and rabbits was the person's personal theory. I said that perhaps their comment that a rabbit's ears are wing-like and perhaps that is why that suffix counter is also used for rabbits might be their personal theory. ~わ being used as a counter for birds and rabbits was never in question for me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alcedo-Atthis

Theoretically possible, but it would change the meaning to "there are 2 [of them] flying in the sky". The sentence no longer has an explicit subject that way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/azuranyan

A fun tongue twister: 裏庭には二羽庭には二羽鶏がいる。

(Uraniwa ni wa niwa niwa ni wa niwa niwatori ga iru.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alcedo-Atthis

There are 3 unnecessary "niwa"s there: 二羽庭には (plus, gardens aren't counted with 'wings')


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terumi21

TO ri × → to RI、so RA × → SO ra ○、


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arjuna_13

it's not にわとり、 it's にわのとり。So the 2 birds thing is correct. My issue is... shouldn't it be 空でとんでいます? or 空にとんでいます?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

Logan812545 has answered your question directly below.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

Rejected: Across the sky flew two birds.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

There are two major errors with your translation.

  1. tense - flew is past tense, とんでいます is present continuous.

  2. The word order for English is SVO - Subject, verb, object however you have translated the Japanese into English with a word order of object, verb, subject. Also -

  3. Because of your incorrect word order the sentence doesn't make sense in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

There are three sloppy errors in your snarky critique.

  1. I'm a native speaker. My parents were born native speakers. All four grandparents as well, albeit in different dialects thereof.

  2. Pardon my preposing. It must be the influence of Yiddish and other Germanic languages. (smile) Despite losing its cases, English still enjoys certain flexibility in word order. Poetry would be lost without it.

  3. I deliberately chose the past tense because (a) I wanted to stress test Duolingo, (b) English poetry allows it, and (c) it fit the context better. IADOTC.

So sue me, already! (Deliberate Yiddish reference, from American TV.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

MaynardHogg - you and your family being native English speakers has nothing to do with my response? Your logic on that point is ridiculous! How would I know that you and your family, for generations back, were native English speakers and how would that in any way influence any response of mine?!

I think you mean 'presupposing'?

This is not poetry. And despite English being flexible and allowing "exceptions" for the sake of art, that is not the case here and poetry is by no means natural English. No one would talk like this in real life.

This. is. NOT. poetry.

You are presupposing that my response was 'snarky' rather than merely pointing out factual grammatical and syntactical errors. Why on earth would my response be snarky? I don't know you. I don't know your family or genealogy or linguistical background, which is beside the point - why would any of that matter in terms of my response? You are presupposing that complete strangers are making assumptions about you and your English capabilities based on background information that they can't possibly know. And that based on that information that they can't possibly know that their instinctual reaction is to react with malicious intent? What a sad and disturbing little world you live in. Perhaps, instead of employing a deluded victim mentality and jumping to your own unfounded conclusions you should consider that you know as much about others online as they know about you (which is nothing) and not automatically assume that people are not trying to attack you but rather are genuinely trying to help you with what they thought were innocent mistakes?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talste
  • 1054

"Two birds fly in the sky" was not accepted. Why is that?

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