I don't know if any English speaking countries actually say "0 a.m." though?
In writing it's "00:00" in 24hr clock system, but "12:00 am" in 12hr clock system.
In speech it's "twelve A.M." (though usually just "twelve o'clock" or "midnight").
In military speech it's "zero zero zero zero" or maybe "zero hundred hours".
@TomRDA can't reply to you but I hope you get this comment.
As a native speaker of English I can tell you that saying "12:30" is often recognized as "in the afternoon". To indicate it being after midnight, most people would say "half past midnight". Half being a half-hour.
English sure is strange.
I'm speaking as a native Englishman who's lived in England his whole life. ^^
When I said "any English speaking countries", I meant English countries other than mine might have a different system where they say it that way—such as in Asia or Africa—but I have no idea if any do.
If you were to say "0 am" for midnight... would you then also say "0 pm" for noon (midday)?
There would be no need to mention "A.M." or "P.M." for zero if you only use it on one of them.
Here in England, no one would ever consider writing "0 am" for midnight.
- 12 hour system: "12 am" or "12:00 am"
- 24 hour system: "00:00"
A.M. means "before noon" (Ante Meridiem)
P.M. means "after noon" (Post Meridiem)
I'm assuming German doesn't use the 12 hour clock system at all? "Uhr" just means "hour", right?
11:00 = "11 Uhr" = 11 o'clock (A.M.)
12:00 = "12 Uhr" = 12 o'clock (noon, P.M.)
23:00 = "23 Uhr" = 11 o'clock (P.M.)
00:00 = "0 Uhr" = 12 o'clock (midnight, A.M.)
My old maths teacher would shout at anyone who said: 12 a.m. , 12 p.m. , 0 a.m., or 0 p.m.
He said those things were meaningless. Time went from 11:59 a.m. to noon to 12:01 p.m.
Similarly, time went from 11:59 p.m. to midnight to 12:01 a.m.
But maybe time was different back in the 1960s...
EDIT .... But then I googled it. it seems that The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language says that by convention, 12a.m. means midnight. On the other hand, the national physics laboratory (UK) says: There are no standards established for the meaning of 12 a.m. and 12 p.m. and as this is an American site, I shall go with the American version.
Noon is definitely “12 Uhr”; midnight can be either. I guess it’s possible to view the “0 Uhr” to the 24h system, but since 0 is a valid number in both that can only be proven from circumstancial evidence. In any case, as the Japanese example shows, conceptualisations can vary across languages, that’s why I asked in the first place ;)
In Poland we use 12/24 hour system similar to German. In a correct, formal speach it would be "godzina 23.45", but in generaleverybody would say just "11.45" or sometimes "(godzina) 11.45 w nocy" meaning "11.45 (hour) at night". It is simply quicker to say "jedenasta" that "dwudziesta trzecia" andeverybody knows that we go to school a.m. and eat dinner p.m.
Well, literally "zero hours before noon" -would be- noon, so no, it doesn't make sense from a literal interpretation at all.
Think about it, 12-noon minus 0 hours is 12-noon :)
I just wrote midnight and it was marked correct; no ambiguity.
At least we haven't gotten into the whole discussion of what "half-8" means yet!! (Hint: It's 8:30, in the UK. In Germany it would be 7:30. Argh!)
Good point. Because, literally, "Four hours before noon" could mean eight o'clock. So a more precise punctuation (never used) might have been "4, a.m." (Hour four, before noon).
However, when we say "a.m." we think "in the morning" and, writing "p.m.," we think "in the afternoon / at night." AM and PM are never literally translated.
I've noticed that well spoken Americans are careful to use "noon" and "midnight," thus keeping things precise and elegantly simple.
Brits tend to be more slapdash. We all understand noon and midnight perfectly (though, to the sassenach English, "noon" sounds a tad more archaic than "midday") - but, at any rate down south, we are more likely to just say "twelve" or "twelve o'clock"; and then get into knots if we have to clarify.
Revellers and late risers sometimes confuse "twelve in the morning." But, for reasons given by others above, our national consensus is that "12 in the morning" should mean midnight, whilst "twelve in the afternoon" means midday.
We do not use zero with am/pm; and, if confused, we quickly drop into the 24hr clock which we all know from train timetables, etc., where "24:25" might be almost acceptable to explain last cabs home from, say, a concert or wedding - but "00:25" more commonly used and more mathematically accurate.
It's not possible to speak "0000", because that isn't a word. You mean "zero zero zero zero" right? If so, I'd have thought repeating the same number three times would be seen as more redundant than saying "zero hundred hours", and on top of that it takes more time to say as it's longer by two syllables. :P
I think "rei" is slightly less usual in conversation.
Using "rei" tends to make words which have homonyms, similar sound but different meaning. For example, 0回, I can say it as "zero kai" or "rei kai". And there are some homonyms of "rei kai" like 例会(regular meeting), 霊界(spiritual world).
And also, using "rei" tends to make unclear sound. 0円, If I say it "rei en", it sounds like "rēn". It's hard to listen to the word as 0円. So, I (and almost of all Japanese, I think) say it "zero en".
Songs especially tend to use phraseology that are not common in everyday speech. Novels may use similar terms to bring emphasis to a subject. However, in daily conversation, I have never seen 零時・れいじ either written or spoken (and even my computer was very confused with my typing it just there!) It could also be dialect though - I lived in Northern Japan and Tokyo, so maybe in Western Japan it's used more?
It's interesting. I hadn't thought it was dialect for over thirty years. So, I googled a bit. Let me share them.
This page is a document written in 1989 by JST(Japan Standerd Time) group belongs to NICT(National Institute of Information and Communications Technology). This page says that they (JST group) needed to decide a consistent answer of the time notation of noon(12pm), and what they decided.
Yes, This is slitly different from we are talking about (we're talking about 12am not 12pm). But in this page, there are some things about this topic.
This page has three section. 1.Legal basis, 2.Notations in our society, 3.Way of thinking.
In the first section, they say that there is a law which defines 午前 and 午後 announced in 1872 (seems to be not changed so far) and it defines 午前 is from 0時 to 12時, 午後 is from 1時 to 12時(That's ridiculous!). So, according to this law, if we mean midnight, we should write 午前0時 or 午後12時 (not 午前12時).
In the second section, they say that notations are different in domains or industries.
A funny story is, one day, a primary school student asked their teacher about the correct notations. The teacher couldn't answer, so the teacher escalated this but nobody could. Finally, this question reached to Education Ministry and they asked this to JST group. And they announced "Since this problem is deeply related with our customs, it is too early to decide a consistent notations soon." This story is in 1970's.
So what I mean is, we have definitions but nobody care. We use different ways in different places.
I want to add a bit. These are samples they use 午前0時 if they need.
This page is written by Japan Public Relations Association. This association supports organisation's activities of publication. You can see an example list on the bottom of the page.
This page is written by Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. Government documents look like to be written following the way. This page is written Sep 19th this year.
This page is written by NHK (Japan's largest broadcasting organization). They seem to use 正午 to mean noon, and 午前0時 to mean midnight and sometimes use 夜の0時 or 夜の12時. They never use 午後0時 and 午後12時.
And these are recent news articles.
In English, (I am a native speaker with a degree in English) it is traditionally incorrect to say either "am" or "pm" for either 12 o'clock, because the "m" stands for "meridiem", meaning "midday". So "am" means "before midday" and pm means "after midday". Midday IS "m". Usage is changing, but because different native speakers are adopting different strategies, if you say anything other than "12 noon" or "midnight", it is ambiguous. I think this has now evolved to the point where we can no longer just say "that's wrong!!" (as I realise I am doing!) but still, I will never refer to the middle of the night as "am" implying morning, nor will I say that midday is after itself.
It's because you wrote "it's".
午前れい時 doesn't contain "is" or any verbs at all. It's not a sentence.
- 午前 = a.m.
- れい = 0 (zero)
- 時 = hour
This might help make it clearer:
- 午前れい時 = 12 am
- 金曜日 = Friday
- いぬ = dog
- 車 = car
↓ ...made into a sentences... ↓
- 午前れい時です。 = It's 12 am. / It is 12 am.
- 金曜日です。 = It's Friday. / It is Friday.
- いぬです。 = It's a dog. / It is a dog.
- 車です。 = It's a car. / It is a car.
です = "is". (です is essentially the Japanese equivalent of the "be" linking verb / copula).
Those four Japanese sentences don't say the subject, since subjects aren't necessary in Japanese when easily understandable. English needs a subject to sound normal though, which is why the word "it" has to be added to fill in for the subject in the English translation. Hope this makes sense. ^^
Here's something for people still not sure about AM and PM to try — change your computer/phone from displaying time in 24hr format to 12hr.
On Windows 10:
- Right-click the date on the taskbar.
- Click "Adjust date/time".
- Scroll down to "formats" and click "Change date and time formats".
- Change "Short time" setting from HH:mm to hh:mm tt.
Then either stay up late until midnight, or turn off the "Set time automatically" setting and manually change the time to 23:59, then watch what happens as it ticks over from "11:59 PM" to "12:00 AM". ^^
It should be gozen rei ji, but I can see where you might have misheard. The れ is pronounced re, but Japanese "r"s are notorious for sounding like a mix of English "r", "l", and "d".
Also, it's not a hard and fast rule, but I find it helpful to separate the romaji into vocabulary words, i.e. 午前 = gozen, れい = rei, and 時 = "ji". I mean, strictly speaking, れい時 should probably be considered one "word" but for clarity, I've separated them here.
English and American usually use A.M./P.M. time system. And they aren’t zero A.M./P.M. But Japanese time system is zero A.M./P.M. Because it is series to time.
24 hours time system, A.M./P.M.(English and American) and A.M./P.M.(Japanese)
00:00(24hours) is 12 :00 A.M.(English and American) midnight. 00:00(24hours) is 00:00 A.M.(Japanese)
00:00(24hours) is 12:00 P.M.(Japanese) custom.
00:01(24hours) is 12:01 A.M.(English and American)
00:01(24hours) is 00:01 A.M.(Japanese)
00:01(24hours) is 12:01 P.M.(Japanese) custom.
01:00(24hours) is 01:00 A.M.(English and American)
01:00(24hours) is 01:00 A.M.(Japanese)
11:59(24hours) is 11:59 A.M.(English and American)
11:59(24hours) is 11:59 A.M.(Japanese)
12:00(24hours) is 12:00 P.M.(English and American) noon.
12:00(24hours) is 00:00 P.M.(Japanese)
12:00(24hours) is 12:00 A.M.(Japanese) custom.
13:00(24hours) is 01:00 P.M.(English and American)
13:00(24hours) is 01:00 P.M.(Japanese)
23:59(24hours) is 11:59 P.M.(English and American)
23:59(24hours) is 11:59 P.M.(Japanese)
So Japanese time system, 00:00 A.M. is 12:00 P.M. , 00:00 P.M. is 12:00 A.M.
There is NO SUCH THING, in England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, America, Canada, Japan, Papua New Guinea or the Central African Republic, as either "12 A.M." or "12 P.M." People who say or write "12 A.M." or "12 P.M." are simply making mistakes - that's all there is to it. A.M. stands for Ante Meridiem - Before Midday - and P.M. stands for Post Meridiem - After Midday. Obviously midday itself is neither before nor after midday, and midnight is to an equal extent before one midday and after another. It's not quite accurate to say that the expressions "12 A.M." and "12 P.M." are meaningless, because when people mistakenly say them we know perfectly well what they "mean", but they're WRONG nonetheless, and should not be used in a language course.
Just playing devil's advocate here, but:
when people mistakenly say them we know perfectly well what they mean
Isn't the whole point of language to make people understand what you mean? In that sense, it's not "wrong" at all; it achieves its purpose "perfectly well".
Obviously, this gets into the prescriptivism vs descriptivism argument, which I don't really have a strong stance on (not being a proper linguist). Just thought I'd throw the idea out there.
I was taught in the early seventies (at the age of six) by VERY pedantic teachers that 12am was quite correct for midnight, as everything which follows is morning, and that 12pm was equally acceptable for midday, as everything which follows was afternoon. Not only did my English teacher think this, so did the Radio Times, The Sunday Times, The Telegraph, The Guardian and, as I remember, The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary. I could extend the list, but you get my point. DerrickMcClure has got a bee about what is "WRONG" in his bonnet. But I believe the bonnet is mostly Derrick's.
Certainly, Midday or Noon would seem more elegant — but there are circumstances (such as TV listings) when the replacement of the digits and abbreviations found throughout with the written word, "noon," would seem out of place.
Literally, there can be no such phenomenon as exactly twelve o'clock, anyway, since time doesn't stand still - and even an instant of time involves the passage of it.
But, more to the point, what was widely understood, widely used, and conventionally correct for all of the pedants and editors in the British Isles for at least a century and a half before Derrick was born is surely not "WRONG."
Sorry, folks, but I don't buy into the notion that the correctness or incorrectness of an expression (or of anything else) is affected by its frequency of usage. "Midday before midday" is nonsense, and therefore patently incorrect, no matter how many people say "12 A.M." And recall that what we're discussing here is a language course, and that language courses are NECESSARILY prescriptive. Native speakers of French don't always say "Je ne sais pas", they say "Chais pas"; and learners can get off with saying that once they're advanced enough to converse fluently. But "Chais pas" is not included in introductory French courses. Incidentally, how does Eric31359 know when I was born?
It's aimed at speakers who know enough English to follow a course, but not necessarily at NATIVE English speakers: it's pretty obvious from the comments that a lot of the people taking the course are not native English speakers. I'm also using Duolingo for Polish and Swedish: I could follow a course in either of those languages if it were given in French or Italian, and if I did, I would expect not only to further my Polish and Swedish but maybe incidentally to improve my French or Italian - and I certainly would not expect to find BAD French or Italian used in the course. Hope your cough gets better soon.
Noon originally meant the ninth hour after sunrise — which varied considerably from winter to summer, but averaged at around 3 P.M. Midday has always had a haziness to it, as far as I'm concerned: "I'll be there around midday" implying lunchtime. Indeed, during British summertime, the sun is at its zenith at 1 P.M.
I don't think anyone was proposing "midday before midday"; 12 A.M. rather implies "midNIGHT before midday," which is as logical to me as "one o'clock before midday" (1 A.M. — or, as most would say, "one o'clock in the morning").
This language course ought to be teaching what is most commonly used in speech and writing — regardless of your concept of logic, Derrick. And, in the UK and the US, wherever the 12 hour clock is used, a majority have long agreed that 12 P.M. represents midday and the immediate thereafter.
There was an American who proposed dropping the "P" for midday, and just writing "12 M." I expect you would have approved. But it didn't catch on.
The British decided, where precision was required, to use the 24 hour clock and drop the antiquated Latin tags. However, as I point out, radio and TV listings, and many other programmes for events, all tend still to use the 12 hour clock — and, by convention, write 12 P.M. to represent the start of the thirteenth hour after midnight (the first hour after midday, and the first of twelve before the following midnight).
I see no reason to try to change this — especially when teaching English as a foreign language.
I suppose you could make a case for 2.5 being rounded down to 2 instead of up to 3 (or, perhaps, for simply not being rounded) — but mathematical convention says, if you're going to drop the decimal, then 2.5 gets rounded up. I expect you could make an even stronger case for counting in base 12. But convention has come to dictate that we count in tens.
And sorry to presume your date of birth, Derrick. I was born in '66 — one hundred and fifty three years after Napoleon's retreat from Moscow. I suppose it's reasonable to assume you were born after 1905 — and English was already standardising from the publication of the first dictionary in 1755 (indeed, ever since the popularisation of the printing press).
To be fair, though, time was not standardised here until the middle of the nineteenth century (starting with "railway time" in 1847 — and moving swiftly to Greenwich Mean Time). So one hundred and fifty years may have seemed insulting. I did not mean to imply you were Generation Z.
Most kanji have multiple readings, each used in different contexts.
A very (very) simplified explanation is that some of the readings are from Chinese (on'yomi) and are used in compound words, and some readings are from Japanese (kun'yomi) and are used when the kanji is alone or combined with hiragana (the hirigana used in that way are called okurigana).
There are exceptions to that rule everywhere, plus many kanji have a multitude of each of those two types of reading, but it can be helpful to keep in mind.
- A.M. is the first half of the day.
- The first half of the day starts at 00:00.
- 00:00 is pronounced "twelve o'clock" when speaking in 12-hour time.
- In 12-hour time we talk about which number "of the clock" ("o'clock") the hour hand is pointing towards.
"12 o'clock" at the beginning of the day = "12 am" = 00:00
Time display are based on 「時刻制度(in1872)」as Japanese time system. a.m. is zero to twelve. p.m, is one to twelve. Both there are twelve.
a.m. twelve is noon twelve. Midnight twelve is zero a.m. or twelve p.m
And this Japanese time system do not exist zero p.m
This is Japanese local rule.
Thunk you for your report
About a.m.(午前) and p.m.(午後)
If It divide one day in half and noon is basis. Then “a.m.” is before the noon. And “p.m.” is after the noon.
But Japanese law says
正子(しょうし) = midnight =0:00 a.m. = 12:00 p.m.
正午(しょうご) = noon = 12:00 a.m. only
Then It is a reason the name called “0:00 p.m. will not legally. Though noon past ten minutes unwillingly is twelve past ten a.m. legally.
If the introduction of time system from Europe and America in those days.
Then 正子(しょうし) = Twelve a.m. / 正午(しょうご) = twelve p.m.
Because it was intention of introduction of “0:00”.
But Japanese usually say noon = twelve or zero omit a.m. or p.m.
I referred to © NAOJ
Thank you for your advice
I referred to this page on website
I read the Wikipedia very interesting. It is 12:20 a.m. (It means noon past 20 minutes) 国立天文台 says “0:20 p.m.” is better than “12:20 a.m.”.
To begin with a.m. defines for 12:00 p.m. to noon. P.m. defines for noon to 12:00 p.m. But I think 12:20 a.m. past noon.
And I am interesting definition that is 24hour format. Then one day divide two. Morning(a.m.) is 00:00 to 12:00.
Noon is 12:00 to 13:00.
Afternoon(p.m.) is 13:00 to 24:00.
But, this is three parts, isn’t it ?