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  5. "I do not eat meat or fish."

"I do not eat meat or fish."

Translation:肉と魚は食べません。

June 8, 2017

120 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtenHolmq

Why is it を for positive (I eat) but は for negation (I don't eat)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndiPopp

Both should work for both. More literally: 肉を食べます = [I] eat meat; 肉は食べます = concerning meat, [I] eat


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CorgiCerberus

This is how i see it: in the case of «を», the particle is meant for objects receiving the action. In negation, the objects do not receive the action so they don't get the «を» .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jose332507

Good explanation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TyrantRC

In negation, the objects do not receive the action

it's not true though, you can also say 肉と魚を食べません、the は doesn't mean that the action is not being done, is simply stressing the negation of the action. It just happens that for general things like this, using は sounds more natural for Japanese people because the particle throws the focus into the negation.

a different example:

「私は『肉と魚』食べませんが、ジョセさんは食べます」"I don't eat meat and fish, but Jose does"

In that case the は goes to 私 because I wanna make a contrast with "Jose". The action is still there with an object being marked. In fact, that assertion is conceptually wrong, because particles don't mark verbs, they mark non-verb things.

In the case of「肉と魚は食べません」は is superseding the を、that's all. The を is still there below は。


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hhZaLroA

Yes, both are correct and generally you use を for positive and は for negation but the 'better' one to use also depends on the context (ex. the question that was asked before this). However, this is more complicated but for now we should probably stick to this.

sakana to niku wa tabemasen 魚と肉は食べません

sakana to niku wo tabemasu 魚と肉を食べます

Source: my Japanese friend.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nromeror

Best phrase for a vegetarian


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marcell666

Vegan here, waiting until they teach "milk" and "eggs"..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tigermink

I wonder if later pm they introduce us to the word 恋人, whoch means Lover. Of they do, and they give us phrases like ビーガンPETAの恋人です。(I am a vegan Peta lover) like Ima die lol


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John-McQuirck

Anyways, vegetarianism is dangerous for people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BraydonAnd

Well... that was a pointless statement. No reason to have posted that as it doesn't relate to Japanese at all...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Animiles

Actually, growing meat produces a lot of gasses which cause global warming. The results of global warming are one of humanities biggest threats. Vegetarianism actually saves people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Animiles

人類を助けてと未来を救うてください!

(just a random question, I used 'と' here because it translates to 'and'. But can it be used like this? Or is it gramatically correct, but uncommon to use in this context?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fractalgeek

To is and in an exhaustive list, ya and in an incomplete one, and ka most like or.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thepandama8

You can say that again


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Falcon198016

肉と魚は食べません。


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tara_han

Marked wrong today for using 魚, although it was fine with 食


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WizardSwag

Ok get this... What if you could drag and drop the order too instead of just tapping


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SickCatFites

idk how old this comment is, but.... you can


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeddyWolfe

You can drag them around once they are on the lines.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/toffee1141

To can be used for or as well as and?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alvaret

only between nouns or adjectives, not between sentences or as an opening word


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HamzaElMjaiche

no ... not for adjectives


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KuronosuKami

I haven't seen it used for "or" yet. But I'm not an expert...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamuelWilt

I mean.... The answer is using と as or...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mofushinderu

と does not mean "or", it means "and". It's just that in English you can use "or" in this sentence, but if you think about it "or" here actually means "and".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KonradSoch4

Well, Boolean logic explains it: (not X) and (not Y) = not (X or Y)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TomWhipp2

Break the bar change the sign


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charlotte427409

I read that "or" is か but duolingo did not accept a phrase with か.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DroppedBass

Isn't mentioning fish in the sentence redundant? Or does にく refer to any meat that is not fish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Niilo13

Meat usually refers to meat from farm animals. Fish is usually its own category. Vegetarians can eat fish and for example vegans don't eat either. So it's a good and simple way to make it clear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jonathan700637

People who don't eat meat but do eat fish are Pescatarians.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Semeltin

Not true. Vegetarians cannot eat fish but they can eat eggs and dairy products. Vegans do not eat those either.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

Depends on the person. I know plenty of people who consider themselves vegetarian but eat fish or chicken or both - one friend claimed she was vegetarian but ate fish, chicken, bacon, sausages and mince (ground meat) - but wouldn't eat steak, chops etc. Yet others are very strict and won't so much as eat meat flavoured (chicken or beef) noodles or chips.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Madisson778048

your friend is not a vegetarian. make no mistake, there isn't leeway with what is and isn't vegetarian/ vegan. if somebody says they are vegetarian/ vegan they don't "sometimes" eat animal products, they never do.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

I KNOW that - but she doesn't. She thinks and insists that she is. I just mentioned this particular friend to illustrate the extremes of "vegetarianism" or of people who think of themselves as vegetarians.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CorgiCerberus

落ち着いてください。


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jonesnori

Many, if not most, vegetarians, do not eat fish, either - it's unsafe to assume. But there are plenty of people who do eat fish but not meat, so it is not a bad idea to be specific.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/V2Blast

In this case, I think Japanese often use 肉 to refer to meat that isn't fish/seafood. So if you say you don't eat meat (肉、にく), you might still get served fish (魚、さかな) unless you explicitly exclude that too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dave497450

Should 肉も魚も食べません have been acceptable? Or is that more like saying "I eat neither meat nor fish"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TriffinneM

That's what I put as well and it wasn't accepted. I think the missing "ha" or "wo" between "魚も" and "食べません" might be part of it. In later lessons, they use "も" to signify "neither this nor that" in a negative sentence, so I can't see why it wouldn't be accepted. Next go around I'll add in the "wo" and see if it accepts it.

EDIT: Just checked, it doesn't accept にくもさかなもはたべません or にくもさかなもをたべません

I'm reporting one as "should be accepted". Out of context, it's hard to tell what the intent of the sentence is. If it's "I am not currently in the act of eating meat or fish" then "と" makes more sense. If it's "I do not typically eat meat or fish (because I'm a vegetarian or some other reason)" Then "も" would make more sense.

(If my understanding is wrong, please explain!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MotYLi2

I never learnt the grammar for it so I'm not entirely sure but after living for a while in Japan, I'd say も replaces the particles that should be used if the word it's attached to was not in an enumeration. Therefore you can not have もは and もを. Also, i haven't heard much of a double も. In other words, i think the sentence you're looking for is 肉と魚も食べません. But indeed, it feels like a better translation for "i eat neither meat nor fish" than of "i don't eat meat and fish". I don't think it has to do with what's the topic of the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mischaker

I'm a vegan so this is pretty useful


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/brendon27

Which part of this question is the negative? Can someone write this beside "i do eat meat and fish" so i could compare please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtenHolmq

It ends with ません instead of ます


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ellastmg

I wrote meat and fish the wrong way around on my first try XD


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mike_409

Is fish not considered meat in Japan? Can someone explain?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SickCatFites

(Pretty much globally) Red meat is usually whats being referred to with the word meat. Usually, if someone says they don't/can't eat meat, it would be considered unclear whether or not fish is included.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fractalgeek

About 10 years ago, at a Ryokan in parts remote, the booking had made clear that the group included several vegetarians. They got no meat - but twice as much fish as the non-vegetarians. The whole, deep fried flying fish (fins/wings outspread) were particularly special.

Of course, the proprietor may have just been an a-hole!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/V2Blast

In this case, I think Japanese often use 肉 to refer to meat that isn't fish/seafood. So if you say you don't eat meat (肉、にく), you might still get served fish (魚、さかな) unless you explicitly exclude that too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fractalgeek

One I have run into in Japan is fish in "Dashi", a base cooking stock. High quality Dashi is perceived as being made from fish, not just seaweed. So if you go to a restaurant, and say "is your dashi made from fish", they might look insulted and reply "of course"

But if you say "I cannot eat fish or meat, what is OK?", you sometimes get a different answer!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TomWhipp2

Fish isnt considered meat anywhere.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/V2Blast

That is flatly incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarieSavoi2

How can I type in Japanese?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

Are you using a device ie. a cell phone, smart phone, tablet, note book...?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarieSavoi2

No . I am on my computer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

I actually can't remember what I did - a bit of trial and error - but try looking under settings and then under keyboards and languages. Hope this helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarieSavoi2

Thanks. I will look at my settings.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bowserking11

I understand と to mean 'and'. I can kind of see why it's used in this example, but is there another word for specifically 'or' that would be used to contrast between two different objects, instead of adding them together?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexOsheter

Handy and educational!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/99duffman99

I'm still unsure as to why we useはinstead of を in this sentence. Could someone explain why this is to me?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nedlius

when did they explain how to do this one


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NearatHand

Truth is they never explain anything, they teach you the same way a parent does.

If you started learning japanese here first, I'd say that's a bad idea, personally I used Wanikani and kaniwani for 2 months and bunpro for a month, and all kinds of little things in between before I came here and I'm glad that's how I did it, I view this platform as a place to practice, not really to learn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SickCatFites

(Note on sounding more natural)

I'm being a bit picky I suppose, but the choice to use "と" and "は" in the same sentence like that seems strange. The two main forms of "and" are "と" and "や." They're basically interchangeable except that と is implying these things specifically, while や implies "among other things." The difference between が and は is basically the same. が is emphasizing this/these specifically, and は is more general and open ended. So in most cases it has an unnatural feel to use the opposite implication in the same sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SickCatFites

(Thanks for coming to my TedTalk)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WendyWiraw

"to" here is used for "or". But how do you differentiate between "and" and "or"? Cause it's quite an important distinction.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FreyanBram

Can "と" mean "and" or "or"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ValeValirman

can you use と for "and" and "or"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fractalgeek

"As for fish and meat, I do not eat (either of them)". It's not "or" in the sense of alternatives, which is why it is an "and" word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anne437064

Meat or fish にく か さかな

Meat and fish にく と さかな


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TIxZ16

OR should be または instead of と

肉 と 野菜 meat AND vegetable 肉 または 野菜 meat OR vegetable


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aliya_husram

does とcan be use for both 'or' and 'and'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArtemisCai

Isn't か for "or" and と for "and"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/XD_Discover

I've noticed that every time a sentence that says, " I eat _. " It has ます as the ending, while the ones that are saying they don't eat _ have ません. I am wondering the history behind why that is, if you would be so kind, so I could get a better reasoning for that in my head.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nancy676366

I'm still doing my placement test - I can't believe I got that right! This course is going to be so much fun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ASchaufele

Ok im lost now. Can someone please explainthe sentence structure to me here? I juat have no idea of which order to put it in.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdenLamkin

I get really frustrated by not remember the order of how it goes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdenLamkin

i get frustrated of whenever putting each symbol in the correct way... what helps you remember?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ktakn

と its used for 'and' and 'to'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trestles

This should really be "ka" instead of "to" shouldnt it? Its the difference between "and" and "or", which can change the entire meaning of the sentence. I guess essentially it means the same thing...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NichoHan

So when do you use か as "or"? (...as duolingo states)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/isha339421

Whe we didnot use (wo) after sakana ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FlikYFlak

So you're telling me that nouns come first then "everything else"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

The basic understood word order for Japanese sentences is subject object verb (私は)ケーキをたべます. By comparison English is subject verb object - I eat cake.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Faraday107456

Will someone please do a break down of this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas_Hubbard

Niku to sakana wa tabemasen. That's the romanization of it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas_Hubbard

Why isn't "tabenai" accepted? That is another way of saying "I don't eat."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SickCatFites

At least for now, they're focusing on formal speech


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZannaDevos

I can't seem to get tis one right, even if I copy and paste the exact same text as the correction, it says I'm wrong. Am I the only one with this problem?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

か is used for or. ケーキか パンか どちのほうが好き? Cake or bread, which do you like best?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DvidCsende2

I love it that I wasn't offered "ha(wa)" as an option and failed this because of it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SpectrumFlame

There was no option to select fish for the answer! That's not fair, I couldn't have answered correctly! I knew the answer was correct, what I would've done would've worked just fine!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hatsforever

If the particle is "wa", wouldnt that mean the meat and fish do not eat?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JillyPendl

I am unable to 'Translate into Japanese", as I do not have a Japanese keyboard, nor do I get the word bank option on this question, hence cannot get past this point. Does anyone have any suggestions????????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

Are you using a device or computer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JillyPendl

I am using a PC


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

You can add other keyboards/languages - try going into settings and looking under keyboards, input, languages - one or all of those. I managed to fluke it and add Japanese and Greek.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thatfizzyyyy

Okay but why is it i put the kanji and it marked it wrong??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/reddriveraa

What is the difference in using ではありません vs. じやない in a negative sentence?

Is it right to say: 肉と魚はたべじやない。


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/V2Blast

じゃ is a slightly more colloquial/common way of saying では.

じゃない, on its own, is informal. じゃありません is more formal; I think じゃないです is roughly as formal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Raffi893738

isn't it translated to "I do not eat meat AND fish."? I thought the と inbetween 肉 and 魚 stands for and, but not or?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CorgiCerberus

The "or" in Duo's translation does mean "and". It's not providing options or alternatives, but rather an inclusive list (notice how I just used it?). This is one of the functions of と.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AADINATHJH

Is 肉 same as にく?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/V2Blast

肉 is the kanji for にく.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SidneyKuce

Uh, i may be wrong but uh i did it like it said but i was wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnisaAgus17

It's too crazy. I write the correct answer, but i wrong. I write the answer on kanji, and wrong. But that is same word


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Holger25570

I don't see my mistake.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kisakikaede

or ではなく andがただしいのでは⁉️


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kisakikaede

or は【どちらか】という意味で【と】にはならないのではないか⁉️ andが適切ではないのか⁉️


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kisakikaede

肉と魚ではなく、肉か魚ではないのか⁉️


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yoon306781

Is it wrong to use が instead of oh は?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenjaminBr309968

I think everyone already asked this but why not を


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidBriag1

Does と mean both "and" and "or"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wayzis

I wrote 「私は肉と魚は食べません」 and it was a correct answer. But was it right to use は twice?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Timojin1

Duoling states the correct way is "Niku to sakana wa tabemasen" which seems wrong. If it's "to" it means, " Meat AND fish" not "Meat or fish".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tarredfeather

Afaik it's correct. You define the group {meat and fish} and make a statement about it. Roughly translated as "As for meat and fish - i don't eat that."

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