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  5. "じゃあ、パンをください。"

"じゃあ、パンをください。"

Translation:Well then, the bread, please.

June 8, 2017

99 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RamenDutchman

Did anyone notice じゃあ、パン sounds like "Japan"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

There's actually a hilarious anime full of Japanese puns called "Yakitate Japan" about baking bread. Highly recommended if you like pun humor ( ^-^)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/echoAwoo

My first experience with Japanese puns was episode 1 of Ranma, the bread joke not 15s in


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnthonyLongNum

Lol, here in spanish it's called "Ja-pan" since we call bread the same way!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hatsuneblue

Theres this anime that I watch and Its precure ala mode and tye main character will probably mess up bread XD


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cebalanguages

And did anyone notice "pan" is also bread in Spanish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LoganBurden

Well it is a loan word. I think from portugal. Which has a lot of similar words to spanish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EduardoPac954096

Yeah,in Portugal/Brazil bread is called pão,which has a similar sound with pan.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/luffy980162

Here in India bread is called PAAŪ


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LucasZorze2

The Portugal's ships arrived in Japan at 1543. Since then, japanese and portuguese exchange a little vocabulary.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SLGI6C

I read a manga about the meiji period, apparently bread was used to"cure" diseases caused by white rice for wealthy picky esters. In Japanology or sone other shows, it wasn't until after WWII that Japan Incorporated flour into their diet because America sent lots of flour as aid. And apparently that's the birth of monjayaki and okonomiyaki. But I can be wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZelieZazou

The French word for bread, "pain", is also very close. They all must come from Latin I assume.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jayRose01

Umm do they not have bread in Japan back then?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IruHizu

Like most Asian countries, Japan's main carbohydrate supplement is rice.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jendrej

They did not have bread as we know it, it isn’t traditional food there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cecil164832

To be fair, the Japanese now bake bread that is uniquely Japanese, and in terms of quality is comparable to the French. As an example, consider the melon pan, which has no melons in it.


[deactivated user]

    Bread is largely a European and South West Asian thing, leading to some interesting names for it in the far East. In Vietnamese it is banh mi, wheat cake if I remember correctly.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Poulet377889

    Good observation, "pan" was one od the first European loan words adopted by Japan; it was introduced by the Portugese.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThandiRoe

    it sounds similar to bread in french and korean too!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Destiny186832

    "Please give me Japan"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YagamiHikari

    is じゃあ~ like saying "in that case"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobbPorter

    Or "well then...".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GraceMabba

    Am I the only one who thinks "can I get" sounds weird? I keep looking for "may I have."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexandraJ919397

    I think this really boils down to region and culture/subculture. In some places, this is seen as weird or rude. In my area, "may I have" and "can I get" are equal. But if you say "let me get" or "let me have" is extremely rude.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LightningLuck

    Oh, really? where I'm from "let me get", "let me have", and "can I get", would all be considered, not really rude, but not very respectful. We always use "may I have"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/monsterfurby

    The whole sentence "So, can I get some bread?" sounds like it would belong in a context where, having already asked once, the customer is reminding the waiter about their previous request. I don't think that's in line with the sentence's subtext in Japanese, though.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    The implication of じゃあ is "in that case". So, rather than reminding the waiter, a likely scenario to use this sentence in is when you wanted to order something, but they've run out so you just go for bread instead, or when the shop assistant informs you that they have a special price on bread with every order and asks you if want some.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cecil164832

    Except that in a restaurant context, you would NOT say kudesai. You would say onegaishimasu.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    No, in this link which you also posted, a number of the answers suggest that ください and お願いします are largely interchangeable and that both can be used when requesting food, with お願いします generally being the more formal one.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NathanDale3

    Yeah, there is absolutely nothing rude with saying "Can I get" in the States. Now if you were to say "I'll take" like you're ordering at McDonald's, then yes, that'd be rude :P


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SherylHohman

    Where I am in the States, it's Rude also. Must be more of a subculture thing. It may be more common with the youth - perhaps being seen less rude, or normal even, in younger generations than mine.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhilNolan1

    I don't know if it's "rude" but it's very informal. It would be alright for McDonald's or Starbucks but definitely not a fancy tablecloth restaurant.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LightningLuck

    I don't know... Saying it at McDonald's is still not very respectful. You would probably receive a look for being disrespectful.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CindyRebec4

    I completely agree that I think 'can I get' sounds rude, but I think they're using that translation since kudasaru (くださる) is when someone of perceived higher status gives something to you (or someone in your in group)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qermit

    Why do you use katakana to write 'pan'?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/euboat

    Katakana is usually used for words borrowed from other languages. パン comes from the Portuguese word for bread 'pão'.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JCH979

    Bread "pan" is also ponounced the same as Japanese in Spanish :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TaddSeiff

    More accurately, "pan" is a latin root. So yes, the Portugese specifically brought the word, but I think it is more correct to say that the word is written in katakana because it is a latin word, and is the same in most romance languages, Spanish, French, and of course Portugese.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BarbaricWafflez

    Does this mean that the Japanese didn't have bread before European contact?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kornellier

    In European countries, bread has been the basic food, since it comes from the wheat, the main cereal here. In America, in contrast, they have got a lot of recipes based on corn, its main cereal (look at mexican "tortillas", or colombian "arepas"). And so, in most of Asia, the main cereal has been rice: just take a look at japanese or chinese gastronomy and see a lot of dishes containing rice, as the main ingredient or just as a garment. Moreover, the japanese "onigiri" are a kind of japanese sandwich but made with rice instead of bread, so we could say that rice was (and is still) the "asian bread" before the cultural exchange between Europe and Asia.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CGATA

    Interesting! Thank you for sharing your extensive knowledge on the subject.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kai19154

    Not all Japanese loanwords come from English. Pan is a loanword from Portuguese. You'll see a good deal of loanwords from other languages than English, so if you know any other European languages you're in luck. Japan took many words from Portuguese and Dutch at first.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LightningLuck

    Katakana is used for non-native words. I believe bread came from Portugal if i am correct...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas804178

    Is this akin to there being a lull in conversation and then saying "right, let's eat!"? Not sure to interpret this phrase in context.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kris_Lau

    You're buying some cake and the cashier is like "The bread is good too!" and so you go じゃパンをください


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pwn_

    Perfect explanation, thanks for this.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YrpItsMe

    You're at a restaurant and the waiter tells you they're fresh out of baby souls, so you're like, "well then can I get bread?"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/serikos

    We're fresh out of bread


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kai19154

    Understandable, have a nice day


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Francy-Chan

    Can I use "おねがいします" instead " ください" when I'm going to order in a restaurant or in a bar?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jan.Kapa

    That would be weird but you technically could. Two ways this would come across-- promiscuous, or you're dying. It's way too polite for ordering food. You might scare someone.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    Welp, I usually used お願いします when ordering during my two years in Japan. I don't recall ever getting a weird look, neither has my (Japanese) partner ever commented on it.

    It could be the tone you use, but I don't think there's anything inherently weird about using お願いします


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hobscrk

    Why is there no "ka" at the end of the question?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobbPorter

    Its not really a proper question which is requiring an answer. Its more like a polite way of saying "bring me the bread".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hugo_zerocool

    "Then" is not それから?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndreiOK

    Totally different actually. それから means after that or because of that. Literally " that after" of if you want "following that"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/De_Selby

    I hear "pan wo kudasai". I was told that をis always read "oh", but apparently there are regional differences and some debate about this. Is it true that people say wo, with a weak w, if the word before ends in n? It's the case of this example and it's suggested here http://yesjapan.com/YJ6/question/769/how_is_really_pronounced


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarlieGreeff

    Why isn't there a か? I thought か indicates a question.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    か does indicate a question, which is why there is no か here, because the Japanese sentence is technically a polite command/request.

    I know there are a lot of comments here, but your question has already been asked and answered a couple of times.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nagyv1

    Why the answer is a question? Isn't "Well, I would like bread." means the same?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andi383868

    Because ください translates to "may I have" (or as duolingo likes to think, "can I have, please"), instead of "I would like." Therefore, the translation is "Well then, may I have some bread?"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    In English, they're both functionally the same, but in Japanese, this sentence is technically a polite request.

    It's getting a bit pedantic which is "more correct", but "Well, I would like bread" is more akin to a statement of desire (polite version of "want"). Arguably though, since the request is implicit, it should still be acceptable in certain contexts.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacobLamro

    Im confused as to how things are shown as questions. This is a clear question, but doesn't present that way. Can someone show me what im missing? Im just a beginner.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JelisW

    A real question will have the particle か at the end of it.

    This statement lacks it because while it looks like a question in English translation, it isn't really functioning as one. It's exactly as if you were at a restaurant, and you told the waiter "could I have the bread please" with the full expectation that the waiter will, in fact, get you the bread. So it's an imperative, rather than a true question. The "please" is just for politeness' sake.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VanNikkel

    Even though you are inplying to the waiter you want bread, one eould still 'ask' the requst in a question like tone because, who knows, maybe they are out of bread as well? lol. I still feel like this should be a question. Yet, I am only a beginner and have much to learn.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LordOfTheAndain

    In English you make it sound like a question to be polite, but you wouldn't want the waiter to respond as if it actually were a question -- "Yes, sir, you could," but not go fetch it -- so it isn't really a question. And Japanese has other ways of making the request polite, so it doesn't need to make it sound like a question. Same function, different forms.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HighTierScrub

    Isn't this supposed to be a question?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/monsterfurby

    Cultural difference. English-speakers often phrase a polite request as a question, while Japanese-speakers basically only use question markers for inquiries that can be responded to explicitly (i.e. with words), not for expressing desire to have something.

    Turning this into a question akin to western cultures could be understood as asking for whether or not it is possible, in theory, to have some bread (pretty much any Japanese-speaker would know what you actually mean, it would probably just sound a bit odd and western).

    That said, I don't know why they didn't allow "I'd like..." as a valid answer.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CRODRIG27

    As a Native English speaker (and considering cultural norms as well), this section of learning threw me off, lol. "Can I get..." would be considered very informal, and almost a low class way of asking for something.

    Is this a common term you can use when ordering food?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    As a fellow native English speaker, I agree, and personally I favor translating this as "bread, please" or "~, please" instead.

    ~をください is a very common and standard way to order food, though naturally, there are also a great many acceptable alternatives of varying politeness. In terms of "class", in my experience, this phrase is most common at fast-food restaurants and cafes. People tend to go for the more polite versions at fine dining establishments, but that's not to say that using ください should be avoided there either.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nela692414

    "Well then, I'll have bread" was accepted but not "Well then, I'd like bread". However, i tried it in the sentence sakana o kudasai, it only accepted "I'd like fish" but not "I'll have fish". So what is really acceptable for kudasai?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    As many other people have observed, it largely boils down to whatever version of English you happen to be most familiar with.

    I believe, at time of writing (May 2, 2018), the Japanese course is still in Beta, so these kinds of inconsistencies are still being ironed out (and taking a while to do so, unfortunately).

    Personally I favor translating ください simply as "please", as in パンをください = "bread, please" and さかなをください = "fish, please", but I'm not part of the development team ┐(‘~`;)┌


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wubiii

    Japan: Pan Spanish: Pan Dutch: Brood English: Bread

    Polish: ChLeB


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MacDeAltom

    Let's get this bread!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lemonggaze

    Can someone tell me what's the difference between "wa" and "wo"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hawkrising94

    Bread in italian is Pane and in japanese is Pan closer to italian then portoguese XD


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andi383868

    It literally is "pan" in Spanish haha


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/deeptendu

    Pan(g) sounds like pain in french which also means bread. Any connection?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tophyr

    Yes. Japanese borrowed the word from Portuguese, and both Portuguese and French derived it from the Latin word for bread, "panem."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/niscate

    じゃあ sounds suspiciously similar to the German informal interjection "Tja" which has roughly the same meaning ("Well,..."). Coincidence?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eehlex

    'Well, bread then, please.' (British English) is not accepted, though the meaning is the same as the (American) 'Can I get...' Which is just not the way it's said here.

    I think 'may I have...' should be a translation option, as 'can I get' sounds weird, even coarse, where I live - unless you're speaking with an American accent (in which case we know you're actually being polite). ;)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EyeZaiyuh

    I said "Ok, can I have bread." And it marked it wrong, I'm not really here to complain but if any one else was thinking the same thing I was thinking, I would say this is probably an appropriate translation for this word.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RnnPedro

    I think "kudasai" means "please".

    We wanna translate "can I get" because that is the intention of the sentence, but I think the literally translation should be. "Ok, bread please"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RnnPedro

    OK then, bread please!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/monsterfurby

    stands at the bakery counter with outstretched hands and open mouth


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wesenlau

    パン = pan.. First loan word from my language that I see lol


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juan708965

    What is the difference between をand は when used as markers?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLore9

    を is typically called the direct object marker/particle, and it indicates what the verb acts on or is applied to. In this case, the verb is a polite imperative (ください = "give me") so を marks what is to be given, パン.

    On the other hand, は is usually called the topic marker/particle. "Topic" is a bit strange for English-speakers because we don't explicitly have "topics" nor do we use the concept very frequently, it's essentially the anchoring point for the sentence and the context. Often it's useful to think about it as meaning "as for..." or "when it comes to...", though you should avoid including such phrases in your final translation.

    For example: ジョンさんは先生です = "As for John (=ジョンさんは), [he] is (=です) a teacher (=先生)"

    When は marks something as the topic, it often (but not always) overrides another particle, taking over its role and elevating the marked thing to the topic. In the earlier example, は replaced が which is the subject marker/particle, which indicates the agent that does the verb. In other cases, は can replace を as the object marker, often to emphasize a question, a negative, or a comparison.

    は is a very versatile particle, but it isn't all powerful. You can't use it with ください because ください is a kind of auxiliary verb which needs to act on a direct object.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/multimediapanda

    I put "well then, I will get bread" is it really that wrong?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cecil164832

    The sentence is a request for someone ELSE to give you bread.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dabidi1

    Well then... Is not natural English.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JelisW

    It is; just a little more confrontational and hm, snotty-formal than じゃ really is. I'd use it if I was deliberately trying to sound a bit dry.

    じゃ feels like somewhere between "well" and "um" in terms of fillers


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/McBoni

    Imagine a situation in a Japanese Restaurant. You thinking hard what you want, and the waiter already nervously waiting. Then finally, having carefully considered all the options you say: >Well, I'll have the bread then please.<


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Felipe952413

    The translation says "the" bread, so they are asking for a specific bread (that one over there)? If this translation is accurate then how would you say "(a/any) bread, please"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_marvinme_

    Sometimes it's written with an あ and sometimes it isn't. Is there any difference? And why is "じゃ" wrong here, meanwhile in other exercises "じゃ" is accepted :/

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