115 CommentsThis discussion is locked.
ō is o with a macron over it, indicating it should be pronounced for extra time. This is how we sometimes transcribe Japanese long vowels instead of explicitly showing the diphthong.
õ is o with a tilde over it. In Spanish, the tilde is written over consonants to show they have been palatalized. In Portuguese, it is written over vowels to show they have been nasalized. It has nothing to do with transcribing Japanese, hence Jop-V's comment that heysofia meant
ō instead of
No. In Spanish the tilde is only over vowels, never over consonants. Á É Í Ó Ú (á é í ó ú) and that line over vowels (tilde) means that that specific vowels sounds with more force within a word. For example in the word "vivía" (I lived) the tilde in the second "i" means that only that vowel in this word is pronuncied with more emphasis or force.
Swisidniak. In Spanish definition this is a tilde (´) and this (~) is a tilde too!. Why can't you go around saying that in Spanish the tilde (~) is over consonants? (See that we are just speaking about the Spanish language). Because if you say it this way, you imply that the "mustache" can be over any consonant, and that's a lie in Spanish. The (~) is ONLY over the "n", but there is more, why don't we call the "ñ" as "n with the tilde"?, because "n" and "ñ" are different letters in our alphabet and have different names, each with its own sound. Btw your definition of the Oxford Dictionary is the same definition of the Spanish official dictionary (RAE Dictionary). Yes, this (~) and this (´) are accents in Spanish too, in our language the tilde is a type of accent, that means call tilde or accent to this both symbols (~ ´) is not wrong, besides, in Spanish the definition is more specific about this tilde (´), this is also called orthographic accent and is called like this because this line is a graphic representation of the acute accent, acute acent in Spanish is invisible, is just loud sound, and this tilde is only over vowels. Although officially this (~) is a tilde too, we don't call it like that because this symbol (~) doesn't have use in our language, I mean, you never are going to see the "mustache" separated from the n over the other consonants, these two are a single symbol called "eñe"(ñ). That's why the majority of us, if not all except for the linguists, just recognize the (´) as the tilde, because this symbol is not attached to one vowel, and the á é í ó ú are not in our alphabet (we just have a e i o u within our alphabet), these are just like a very common special cases of vowels, and they doesn't have a proper name like the eñe (ñ). That's why in Spanish definition you can say the tilde is only over vowels, because when you say the tilde is never over consonants even so the ñ can exist because this is already a different letter from the "n" with a proper name "eñe", with a proper sound and is not called "n with accent". But of course if you split this ñ letter, each part has their name. A poor analogy can be "W", if you split this letter you'll see this are two V's attached, but you can't say "in Spanish two V can be together in one word" (btw V is a evolution of W, as well as Ñ is a evolution of N).
(Sorry if I have some mistakes in my English)
The accent you've used on the vowels isn't a tilde (the tilde is the squiggly line ~ ). The accent over vowels you are describing is the acute accent.
Though I don't know Spanish vocabulary so perhaps you refer to all accents as tildes; but in English they have different names and only ~ is a tilde.
and the Oxford dictionary definition:
an accent (~) placed over Spanish n when pronounced ny (as in señor ) or Portuguese a or o when nasalized (as in São Paulo ), or over a vowel in phonetic transcription, indicating nasalization.
Ah yes, some quick googling and:
Spanish accents are called “tildes” in Spanish. In English, a “tilde” refers to the “mustache” that goes over the “n” (ñ), and all other marks are called “accent marks.” However in Spanish, a “tilde” is used for both accent marks and tildes.
You are using the Spanish definition of tilde and Rae is using the English definition of tilde. However in either the English or Spanish definition it is still incorrect to say that it only goes over vowels and never consonants.
Thank you for the informative response!
Which also helps clarify that you and Rae are indeed speaking about two separate definitions of the tilde,
You of the Spanish definition which includes all accents, and Rae of the English definition which only apples to (~)
"Ha" is pronounced "wa" in "konnichiha" due to old Japanese language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_kana_orthography) . It is pronounced "wa" only in "konnichiha" so don't say "wa" in other words unless you are told to do so :)
It's a matter of the semantic, idiomatic hypernym - hyponym maps of the languages having only partial coverage of eachother.
Another instance of this sort of discrepancy in hypernym - hyponym mapping between Japanese and English can be seen with place deixis. English only has A) 'this'/'these' (proximal: describing a referent or referents near the speaker) and B) 'that'/'those' (medial/distal (ambiguous): describing a referent or referents anywhere else) whereas Japanes has これ/これら as co-hyponyms to A (so, again, proximal: near or with the speaker) but no co-hyponyms to B, only the hyponyms to (/things more specific than) B (that imply B) それ/それら (medial only: describing a referent or referents that is/are nearer the speaker's colocutor than the speaker and where neither party is closer to one another than the referent is to either) and あれ/あれら (distal only: describing a referent or referents farther from both the speaker and their colocutor or colocutors than the farthest of them are from one another). Both それ and あれ could be chalked up to the hypernym 'that' in translation to English just like the various time specific greetings could be generalized to an English equivalent of their semantic hypernym like "hello". And conversely, a translation of someone saying "hello" might actually be a translation of one of the semantic hyponyms of the original utterance because something at the same level of detail doesn't exist or isn't commonly used in the target language.
At its most literal こんにちは just means "Today" and is a greeting used in the daytime (usually a bit before noon to evening).
English uses "hello" as a general greeting in a similar way (with "Good morning" in the morning and "Good evening" in the evening), "Good afternoon" can also be used in the daytime between noon and evening though is a bit less common than a general "hello" (at least where I'm from).
I've never seen this done, especially for the very reason that we conveniently have a free-standing N character. But that's not to say it's never been done. You wouldn't normally see a small tsu before a character from the H-row either, nor would you typically see it after a drawn-out vowel, but you might see both at the same time in weird dialogue, like if a super villain were having a good laugh, it might be written as ハーッハハハー。
Phrases and expressions don't translate one-to-one between languages, especially when the two languages are not the least bit related to each other the way English and Japanese are. Translation is about equivalent usage.
Literally, こんにちは is:
こん literally "this"
にち literally "day"
は grammar particle [topic marker]
The best literal translation is "As for this day..." But that's not how English speakers greet each other. So we look at how Japanese speakers use the phrase, and the equivalent usage in English can be "hello" or "good day" or "good afternoon".
Hi, it keeps giving me error when I write Good day, Hello and in the correct answer that is what is suggesting Good Day Hello I do not understand why. I reported it as an error, saying that my answer should be accepted. Any comment? I also think Good morning should be accepted as translation....or not?
That's how you write a period in Japanese.
Why would the translation be doubled like that? One at a time.
The proper spelling is こんにちは
は is pronounced "wa" when it is used as a grammatical particle marking the topic of a sentence.
こんにちは in kanji would be written 今日は,
今 kon - now, 日 nichi - day は wa - topic
"On the topic of today..."
And is an abbreviation of a much longer phrase 今日はご機嫌いかがですか "How are you feeling today?"
Make sure to check the comments, this is often asked
は has two readings,
The standardized reading is "Ha" and is how this kana is pronounced in words.
Its traditional reading that was maintained after the language reform is "wa" which is the reading it takes when it is used as a grammatical particle. There are many set expressions such as this one that use this particle.
こんにちは is usually written in kana alone, but in kanji would be 今日は「今 kon - now 日 nichi - day は wa - topic particle」
More literally this translates to "On the topic of today..." and is an abbreviation of much longer phrases such as 今日はご機嫌いかがですか "How are you feeling today?" and 今日は良い天気ですね "It's fine weather today, isn't it?"
This is similar to how in English "Bye" and "Goodbye" are from a contraction of the phrase "God be with you"
こんばんは "Good evening" is the same, with 日・にち "day" simply being swapped with 晩・ばん "evening"