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  5. "ほかの学生のテストを見てはいけません。"

"ほかの学生のテストを見てはいけません。"

Translation:You may not look at another student's test.

June 10, 2017

101 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doug9978

it should be look at, not see.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

"You may not look at other students' tests" was accepted 10/23/17


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

Yes, but "may" is too weak. Try "must not" or "do not."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

I agree that those are also perfectly fine translations to deny someone permission to do something, but why would I try something different if my answer was accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jack_wolf99

don't worry, I saw that your level in Japanese is already 25 so I was just curious about it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jack_wolf99

do you already speak Japanese fluently ? @IsolaCiao


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

Yes, but to be clear I don't mean that I speak Japanese perfectly, just that I live my daily life communicating only in Japanese.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhillipC3

This. You can't say "You can not see" in this context. Notably you also can't say "You can not look" UNLESS you have "at."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TaoSquared

What if the other student's tests are invisible?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jamesjiao

I think you didn't quite get the gist of this sentence. Here, 'cannot' means 'must not', not 'unable to'. It's irrelevant whether the tests are invisible or not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

学生(がくせい) refers to university students, and 生徒(せいと)refers to students in compulsory education. This is something that used to confuse me because I learned that gakusei = student, and I would incorrectly call junior high school students "gakusei".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tara_han

So 学生 is student and 生徒 is pupil? That makes a lot of sense. Does that then mean that all those sentences about being an elementary school student (which I always found odd) are incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

I'm not sure what sentences you're referring to, but you usually call an elementary school student 児童 (jidou) or 小学生 (shougakusei) (生徒 seito seems to only be used in specific circumstances). 学生 (gakusei) by itself in general shouldn't be used for someone who isn't in university.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/howcheng

That wasn't the case when I lived in Japan as an English teacher at a high school (JET Programme). It was ~25 years ago, but we definitely referred to the students as 学生たち.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

Are you sure you didn't say 学生たち or 学生たち? I was corrected for calling junior high school students 学生 (~2011). As a classification (for example on a form where you have to list your job), any student can be classified as 学生, but to do so in a specific school setting is unusual. See: https://chigai-allguide.com/%E5%85%90%E7%AB%A5%E3%81%A8%E7%94%9F%E5%BE%92%E3%81%A8%E5%AD%A6%E7%94%9F/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/howcheng

Considering I was teaching in a high school, I can be certain that we never used 小 or 中. I should note that I meant that this was while in conversation with the other staff members, and not speaking of the students in any other setting.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

Interesting. Maybe because high school is not compulsory education, some people call high school students 学生 instead of 生徒 even though it's not the correct word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidMuir1

The required answer 'you can not look...' is incorrect English. Of course you CAN look (which means able to look). What they mean is you must not look, which was not accepted. Reported.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/heqamaat

In the context here, the implication of not being allowed to do it is still present when using cannot. Being a curmudgeon about language doesn't change the fact that it's still said this way


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidMuir1

Curmudgeon or not, my point was that "must not look" (or "may not look"), which is actually more correct than "cannot look", was not accepted and should have been


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/howcheng

Or "may not look".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidMuir1

Absolutely. Unfortunately, many native English speakers don't even differentiate between "can" and "may" nowadays.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/telemetry

Which is why it's pointless to cling to outdated 'rules'. Can is widely used to talk about permission and dictionaries list that usage, there's nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

English students read these comments too, so this kind of thing is confusing at best and actively misleading at worst! Please don't


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fontanellean

The rules are not outdated. Failing to teach English speakers to correctly distinguish between "can" and "may" is not only lazy, but it makes distinguishing nuance of meaning more difficult. Your attitude is entirely too descriptivist.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/howcheng

Per Merriam-Webster https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/when-to-use-can-and-may the use of "can" to mean "to have permission" is dated to at least the year 1500. It wasn't until the late 19th century that grammarians arbitrarily imposed a prescriptivist rule about only using "may" for permission.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fontanellean

It was not the year 1500. It was "by the end of the 1800s" according to the article you shared. 1500 is the year the article says they shared the senses of "ability" and "possibility," not permission.

We can debate about the level of arbitrariness with which it was originally imposed, but it is certainly not arbitrarily imposed today. My ears chafe every time I hear "can" used in the sense of permission.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

Alas, English modals aren't that cut and dried.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/G-M2
  • 152

English should read "students' tests" because it is posessive. The translation I saw was missing the apostrophe and said I had a typo for putting it in. There are multiple tests of multiple students at which you must not look, so proper grammar requires the s' ending.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

I think this is a problem with the duolingo programming, I've encountered an apostrophe at the end of a word being marked as a spelling mistake in other courses as well.

[Edit: 7/25/18 it seems the problem has been fixed.]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/saskiadesi

Can anyone explain how the は particule works in this sentence? It's not part of the verb, is it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Derek003

は is working like it usually does: as a topic marker. ほかの学生のテストを見を見て is a phrase describing an action (to look at another student's test), and that action is the topic of the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FallingGlacier

To add to this, this sentence can be read as: "As for looking at other students' tests, you cannot do it." where everything before the comma is the topic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

Even simpler with a gerund: Looking at other students' replies is a no-no. Too colloquial, I know.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andi_kan

It made sense when I looked at it that way, thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Warptongue

Pssst... what's the answer to this one?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cryopneuma

XD Nice irony there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Albur_Godwin

Is ほか usually written as hiragana (as is now the case here) or as the kanji 外 or 他?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve315950

Are 他のand別の interchangeable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marknld

This was a very educational sentence. I wish Duolingo had the feature to hide those answer words, because that would have made it more difficult. Now I could pretty much guess from the words what the answer was supposed to be.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mayfrogs

you can change the settings so that you have to type the answer instead of selecting the words. i believe by clicking the keyboard icon


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/XiaoLiu02

i guess that's called cheating


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenJaguarM

According to the hints, いけません can be translated as any of "may not", "must not" or "should not". Of course, in English, these three phrases have slight differences. Which is closest to the actual meaning of いけません? Examples: May not - I am denying your request Must not - You are forbidden to do something and/or doing so would have negative consequences Should not - It is advisable not to do something


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mayfrogs

it's sort of all of the above, depending on context. usually, it means "must not" and/or "may not" as you define it, but i've heard it used in all three ways.

if you want to be clear that your intent is "should not," you can say something like "しないほうがいい" literally meaning "it's better if you don't do [that]"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Derek003

What's wrong with "looking at another student's test is not allowed"? Aside from it being very literal, and Duolingo rejecting it, I mean.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

Only the "test" is wrong. Make it "answers," "replies," or "work."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joy999326

I put "No looking at other student's tests" is this wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

It more or less means the same thing, though you'd want " students' ". I think your translation sounds a little less formal than the Japanese as it is not a command.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

Only the "tests" is wrong.

I assume that everyone has the same test. Randomizing the question order only means more work for the teacher. (sarcasm)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Koekje17

This time I wrote: "You cannot look at another student's exam" and it was still wrong... Reported. Unless there is a rule when you can interchange "exam" and "test" and when you cannot?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

I think you were right to report. Some might say that テスト is test and 試験 (shiken) is exam, but "test" and "exam" are often used as interchangeable synonyms in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

Finesse the issue with "work." That's the word I heard growing up—albeit in a former century and across the river.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/trjustinh

Does "looking at another students test is forbidden" count?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

You forget the apostrophe.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dahai69790

DL does like "他の学生のテストを見てはいけません。"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ticoakuma

''You cannot look at another student's test''


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brendan197535

他の学生のテストを見てはいけません Isn't accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/howcheng

Seems fine to me. Make sure you report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Houngawa

July 2020 : I am the only one who clearly hears "koka no gakusei etc." ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joe_lmr

I'm just happy to see a school question from the teacher's perspective instead of the students'. I haven't been in fourth grade for 36 years.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cryopneuma

Heh. Yeah, thinking about it, a lot of these seem to be from the teacher's perspective. Gives some good representation. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daniel132448

Is "You are not allowed look at another's test” wrongly translated? I thought "はいけません" might mean that as well, but maybe it's something a bit different?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cryopneuma

You need to include the word "student" because it is in the Japanese sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daniel132448

Thanks for the reply. Yeah you might be right maybe I was missing the word "student" on that attempt and that's why it was wrong. But then, does "はいけません" also means "You are not allowed"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cryopneuma

As was explained in the Tips section, when a verb (for example, "suru"/"shi masu" which means "do") is written in this way (for example, "shite wa ike masen") it means "you must not." It's a prohibition.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cryopneuma

Happy to help. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kotaro_F

its not accepting "他の学生のテストを見てはいけません"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jr.baek.aron.

I was like where's can't


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ari_97

Would miru no wa ikemasen be wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/howcheng

That should be OK. I don't know if it's in the list of acceptable answers for this exercise, though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hatsuneblue

Well... Isnt that the rule anyway?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sir_fifi

can it be "...mite ii ja nai desu."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ahANpg

1st, ja nai is used for な adjectives, not ii. I am guessing the correct form you are trying to construct is ~みてもよくない です. However, the sentence you are referring to just plainly describing "it is not good to see", while the original sentence means "strictly not allowed to see"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris538660

Not sure, although negative form of いい would be よくない


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tara_han

Is there anything wrong with using "You must not look at the other students' tests" here? Not accepted by Duo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert517822

The corrected version it gives has the ' in the wrong spot. It is after the s not before.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jamesjiao

It depends on the sentence - what was the complete answer? Apostrophe after 's' implies plural possessive - was that the case?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Koekje17

Why is "You cannot look at other student's tests." incorrect? How would you best say this in Japanese? Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

I think it might be the English grammar that's getting it marked wrong. If it's more than one student's test, it should be "other students' tests".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/howcheng

Duo doesn't care about punctuation, though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

Periods and commas are ignored, but I have had answers marked incorrect for incorrect apostrophe use.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maria289653

"not allowed" as translation for "ikemasen" is used by Duolingo in other examples but not in this specific one. Why???????? Duo please explain.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkZimmer18

Imagine actually having to say this to someone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/darcymiller02

you must not look at other student's tests?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

Be careful of the apostrophe. There's more than one student, so it has to be students'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

"No peeking at other students' work!" REJECTED


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kowashikata

That sounds far too informal/colloquial, in my opinion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chupamamas

Trash translation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaniV1

I though "Testo" meant something else. In the context of young teens at school it kind of made sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stan84388

Well... you can't look at THAT either


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

"You must not look at other students' tests!" ACCEPTED.

Too bad about the "test(s)" part, but it's lunch time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mayfrogs

buddy you keep commenting about the word tests as if it's wrong, but the japanese says "テスト" which means test. nowhere does it say anything about answers, work, or any of the other bizarre alternatives you've dreamed up. quit it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaynardHogg

"Don't look at other students' answers." REJECTED


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/howcheng

And that's good, considering that the sentence uses テスト and not 答え(こたえ)

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