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- "へやに三ついすがあります。"
"へやに三ついすがあります。"
Translation:There are three chairs in the room.
121 Comments
へやに + 三ついすが + あります
三ついすが + へやに + あります
Both are valid & have exact meanings. The word order does not really matter as long as particles are assigned correctly
Yes. You can see these changes in pronunciation in the "Tips and notes" section of the "Home" skill, here in Duolingo.
1047
Japanese has two main counting systems, the Chinese counting system that you're most likely familiar with (いち,に,さん,し etc) but also a lesser well known traditional Japanese counting system, ひとす,ふたつ,みっつ,よっつ and I honestly forgot the rest but I think it only goes to 10 anyway. They're basically only used to count irregular objects (in this example, chairs) and I believe where よん and なな come from. You can tell them by the つ at the end.
When referring to the number of things like chairs,food, pencils etc ひとつ、ふたつ、みっつ. Is most accepted. Japanese has countless counting system for different things. Its confusing, but the most common is the one i mentioned
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Yes Kip, it is a general counter. I suspect - ほん/ぽん would be used for pencils as they are a cylindrical object.
Is there a "more correct" order? In languages with less strict word order there tends to be word orders that sound more natural or imply emphasis on the subject or object.
Something to keep in mind!
Could it also be
へやに + いすが + 三つ + あります
I seem to have this pattern in my head from past exercises, where the counter directly follows the noun it's counting (separated by が).
Yes, that is a grammatically correct sentence. And (@Tanja) it is indeed possible to connect 2 particles to 1 noun, like へやには.
Why would you place two particles to one noun though? Wouldn't you, in this case, replace に with は?
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You can totally use two particles with one noun like this. If you replaced に with は it would mean something different.
I understand how only using は would change the meaning, but what’s the difference in meaning between には and just に？
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The は draws extra attention to the fact that this is information about what is in the room/happening in the room. Similar to how word order in Japanese (putting words uncharacteristically at the start of a sentence for instance) puts added emphasis on that word.
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I'm really disliking how they give you the kanji in the notes and then forbid you to use them in the answers themselves, and there's not even the option to report "My answer should be accepted" most of the time.
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There's always an option to report - if it doesn't specifically have a "my answer should be accepted" button then that's not an issue because you can just type that in yourself.
In this case 三 is pronounced み or mi. Kanji can have many pronunciations depending on what follows the kanji.
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so we can put counter expression (mittsu here) anywere in the sentence (except at the end), not just after the counted thing? How to determine what is being counted in that case? How to say "In two rooms there are three chairs" or "There are two desks and three chairs in the room". Where does the counter go in relation to the thing it counts?
Counters are connected to the counted thing by:
- directly placing them next to each other: 三ついす｛があります｝
- linking them with a possessive particle 'no': 三つのいす｛があります｝
- following the topic/subject marker 'wa/ga': いすが三つ｛あります｝
So "In two rooms there are three chairs" would -for example- be: 二つのへやにいすが三つあります。
What about between the first and third options?
When would you use は in the third version, as opposed to the が that Duolingo seems to always use? Is it something like if you know there are chairs but not how many, it's は but if you don't necessarily know there are any chairs at all it's が?
I didnt hear it either.. i was so confused but typed in what i heard (without ga) even though i knew it should have been there.
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I can hear it but I think what is probably happening for the both of you is that が and あります are blending into each other, that, the speed of the speech and the unfamiliar language are making it hard for you both to hear the が.
No. Since we used が to establish that いす was the subject of our sentence, the counting adjective applies to it naturally.
It sounds like "ga" is not pronounced or something. I listen it as "a". Is this right or am i listening wrong?
It's because it is pronounced 'nga' - so it is pronounced, but probably different from what you expected!
- 540
When does (quantity)つ precede the noun it is quantifying, and when does it follow the noun? Examples on Duolingo appear inconsistent and without explanation.
This is my issue. It seems the rules with counters are more fast and loose in terms of placement...
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Numbers/counters should either go between the verb and the last particle or modify the noun with the help of の.
Is it just me, or does the speaker completely drop が in this sentence? I can't hear it at all.
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The が is there, however it is elided with the start of あります, so perhaps that is the reason it is hard for you to hear?
Mark here. へやにいすが三つあります。 へやに三ついすがあります。 三つのいすがへやにあります。 all the same.
Thx Ana. XD
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These are correct except that 三つ cannot directly modify いす. It needs の in between to help the counter modify the noun.
Seems like you need の in your second example sentence as well, not just in the third. へやに三ついすがあります should be へやに三つのいすがあります. Is that right, Ana?
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Yes. that's right Juliette. Xue, Duo has sometimes been inconsistent with this rule - no doubt causing confusion!
I dont think so. i used that two sentence, Duolingo gave me two "Correct". XD
I thought that the counter had to come at the end of the sentence just before the verb?
Yeah i understand that. I should have worded my question better. I mean i thought the amount part. Hitotsu, mitsu, etc. The one that tells the amount of something has to come directly before the verb. Such that the sentence should go ”Heya ni isu ga hitotsu arimasu". At least that was what i was taught on the japanese learning app human japanese. Maybe i misunderstood?
Both alternatives are presumably valid, since both are used in the exercises here. The word order in Japanese is actually more free than what we are initially taught, since it would be confusing to learn all valid/invalid variations at once.
So what you're saying is we start by learning "There are three chairs in the room" then eventually learn "The number of chairs in the room is three."
Pronounciation in the audio seems wrong. It says "mitsu isu ni arimasu". But its written in hiragana as "mitsu isu ga arimasu"
I'm curious how close the digital pronunciations are on these..? Particularly it seems like anything that involves counting "pieces" gets chopped to almost nothing. Trying to figure out if that's my untrained ear, poor enunciation, or both!
Short version: が places clear emphasis on the subject. は is a more general topic marker.
Long version:
が is always used after question words, e.g. だれが来ましたか ("Who came?") as well as in the responses to such questions (松岡さんが来ました -> "mr/ms Matsuoka came"). If you write 松岡さんは来ました it's understood that Matsuoka was already expected to come, and this information could also have been left out (i.e. just 来ました would have sufficed).
There are also certain verbs that nearly always use が, such as いる・ある (to be), いる (to need), わかる (to understand/know) and できる (to be able to/to succeed). In these cases, the 'psychological' subject can be marked with は, while the grammatical subject takes が. E.g. （わたしは）ぺんがいります: "I need a pen". This is demonstrates why applying the grammatical rules of one language to a different one doesn't work; in English, "I" would be the subject and "pen" the object, but in Japanese the pen is the subject (it is being needed), while "I" is merely some extra info that might as well be left out.
Besides general phrases, は is used in sentences with (an implied) contrast between things, where the subject may not have an explicit emphasis, but can nevertheless not be left out from the sentence. E.g. フランスの子供はよくブドウ酒をのみます: "French children often drink wine" (in contrast to children from other countries).
Ha (wa) is usually used wheb establishing a new topic that someone is talking about. Ga would be used for referring back to the topic, or at least, thats how I view it. Image ga being used as "as for x" and ha (wa) being used as "this is x and this statement is about x"
i thought に is used to mark movement and time. however "in the room" neither involves movement nor time, no?
I wouldn't even be able to correctly spell this sentence in romaji only going off of the audio, lol.
I don't understand the previous sentence was: Heya ni wa mado ga mitsu harimasu and now it's : Heya ni mitsu issu ga harimasu instead of: Heya ni wa issu ga mitsu harimasu. Sometimes the counter is before the noun and sometimes after are the both correct ?
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The second of your examples would be correct if 三つ had の helping it modify the noun - I have noticed however that Duo regularly misses this の out at times. Also it is あります - Arimasu, not HArimasu - harimasu would be はります.
Thanks for confirming missing の. Such cases raise paranoia level in learner's mind. "Is it me or DuoLingo wrong?"
So when just indicating the number of items it goes item then number but when indicating how many are in a location it goes place-number-item?
I put three and they said wrong. The answer was 3. :/ k, I think I understand the context, Duolingo.
Hey anyone, why is the counter put before chairs in this instance? I thought it was put after.
Shouldn't it be 三つのいす or いすが三つ? I thought there had to be a の if the counter word came before the object.
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あります means to exist or 'is' or to have but is only used for inanimate objects. ～ます is a verb ending and would never be used on its own. では ありません is the negative present active form of です.
Im glad im not the only one that found the "isu" placement after "3 pieces" to be different/odd compared to previous exercises Xp
I thought that if the counter came before the object, の was needed to connect them. Is this true?
Is it me or the ga is not heard... I hate the slow button: instead of slowing down the recording, they should have the speaker talk slowly.
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I was going to say that you might be finding it difficult to hear the が because it is followed directly by the あ of あります but when I listen to it even at the regular speed they seem quite clear and distinct to me. But I am used to it. That might be your problem though - the elision of sounds due to the speed of natural speech. Also I don't think you really want the speaker to slow down what they are saying, I think what you really want them to do is to enunciate each word clearly and distinctly from each other. While this is understandable for beginners, it won't do you any favours if your goal is eventually be able to understand and communicate fluently and fluidly in Japanese. If you don't get used to natural speech - both speed and elision or slurring together of sounds then you're gonna really struggle. Better to get accustomed to it sooner rather than later. Believe me - this is nothing compared to talking with children or elderly people - in addition to natural speed and elision they also often mumble, speak in low form and their voice pitch (high or low) can also make it very difficult to understand what they are saying!
部屋に三つ椅子があります was marked incorrect. I don't know how to change the autocorrection into the kanji. please accept the kanji or tell me how to prevent or change the autocorrection.
In other task DuoLingo required me to translate: 'There are three windows in the room' and only accepted 'へやにはまどが三つあります。' and rejected 'へやに三つまどがあります。’. Why it's possible to have 'へやに三ついすがあります。' then? How chairs and windows are different in matter of grammar?
が sounds more like "wa" to me. Not even like the nasal "nga" or "na" which has been discussed elsewhere in the forums here
For all of these "type what you hear" ones I think there should be two recordings - one at natural speed, and one at slow speed - not one recording at natural speed and artificially slowed down for slow speed.
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Unfortunately it's impossible to tell when duo does and doesn't accept kanji on even given day. In fact it would be entirely accurate to say that Duo is consistently inconsistent in regards to accepting or not accepting kanji.
Does anyone else have a problem using your keyboard? It won't accept my answer if I use the kangi for room, but it also won't accept my answer if I don't use the kanji for three. Since pressing the space bar replaces all the text with kanji, I have to click it again so it won't change the first half of the sentence. I have this problem a lot, and it means that I have to not only memorize the sentence, the thing I'm supposed to be doing, but also what kanji I can use in each of these speech questions. I'll often get a question right, but have it be counted wrong because it didn't accept my kanji. So instead of knowing what I got wrong when I actually get something wrong, I have to figure out if it was me or just Dulingo being stupid.
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If you press enter after you type each word or character then it won't erase or change the characters/kanji that you've already typed. And as for which kanji duo accepts or when, that's anyone's guess. I would say if in doubt type it in kana. As for numbers, I would say that since duo introduces the kanji for numbers from the start with kana, that you should be safe always using the kanji for numbers.
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My question is: so far, 三つ and other quantifiers have always come after が. Why is it different now? When I place it before the subject am I somehow changing the meaning of the sentence?
"there are 3 windows in the room" = Heya ni wa mado ka mittsu arimas... So WHY "there are 3 chairs in the room" = Heya ni mittsu isu ka arimas? No logical in this! Wa, ka, ni... I don't understand the difference, the place where to put it and so on...
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I think the topic marker は can be there or not, depending on whether the speaker is raising a new topic. 部屋には窓が三つあります sounds like "speaking of what's inside the room, there are three windows there". Where one puts 三つ is more or less a matter of emphasis (and answers rejected by Duo are not always wrong). BTW the subject marker が is ga, not ka.
