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  5. "There are seven books on the…

"There are seven books on the bookshelf."


June 12, 2017



The "satsu" card recording should be redone. It says "sa" then an awkward 2 second silence.

[deactivated user]

    It's supposed to be pronounced さつ, right? Not さっ. I'm still having trouble telling the difference between the big and small つ when it's not between two other kana


    I didn't even know there was a difference! How is っ (small) pronounced when it's at the end of the sentence?


    Not at all, I believe, as it only changes the pacing between syllables to my understanding. Good question though!


    With the small tsu, you repeat the first consonant in front of it:

    八歳 = はっさい = has-sai Eight years old

    Without the small tsu, it'd be hasai.


    I don't think that's the case. In Romaji it's done because when we repeat a consonants in writing, you don't have actually repeat the consonant, instead you pause a bit. Apple is pronounced like aっ-ple, not ap-ple. I used tsu there to indicate that it's not pronounced like aple, instead it's a pause.


    Incorrect. The double P in "apple" does not indicate a protracted sound or a pause, because neither is present. In Italian a doubled consonant letter represents a protracted sound (you have to say NONNO (grandfather) with a long medial N or it will sound like NONO (ninth)), and of course in Romaji you write a doubled consonant letter to represent a protracted sound, but that is not true of English.


    At the end of the sentence, when there is no kana / kanji after small tsu? It just marks an abrupt stop, something like thiっ


    I've not seen the small つ at the end of any sentence yet. Is that even possible?


    I have entered 本だなに本が七さつあります and it was accepted. Does it make any difference whether location (bookshelf) comes before or after the subject (7 books)? If yes, which one is correct?


    No. They're both correct, but the answer they have here seems a little strange to me. Yours sounds more natural to me.


    Is it ななさつ or しちさつ?


    It's pronounced ななさつ


    ななさつ is more widely used because しち can also mean loss.


    I know this isn't the most complex sentence ever, but I got it first try and I feel really good about it. I'm actually learning!


    It should be "Nana satsu". I started feeling that pronunciations for counting Japanese is wrong here.......(I'm a native Japanese speaker. My daughter is taking this course.....)


    Would 本棚の上に or 本棚の中に make sense?


    I think 本棚の上 would imply that the books are on top of the bookshelf, rather than resting upon a shelf within the bookshelf.


    Yes, this actually makes sense, thank you.


    I'm also wondering why the 'の' particle and '上' specifying on is missing here, despite being used in the books on the desk example two questions ago. Perhaps it's simply implied?


    I am no expert in Japanese, but I think its because it's implied. I've noticed that trend of implying in certain cases and not others. 上 may be needed for the desk since it could easily be interpreted otherwise. Just my guess


    I think in this case it is not implied, but there is a difference here. 本棚の上に would mean that there lies something on top on the bookshelf in contrast to lying inside the individual compartments. Because of that you say 本棚に.

    It's a bit confusing, because in English you say on the bookshelf despite meaning something more in the line of 'inside'.


    本棚 can also mean "book case" so I might interpret 本棚の上に to mean on top of the bookcase or on one of the upper shelves in the bookcase.


    I think it has to do with what can be assumed as "normal" vs. what needs to be clarified.

    For a bookshelf there's really only one "normal" place to put books: on the shelves. So, 本棚に would imply putting the books on the shelves since that's where they normally go. You would use 本棚の上に when you need to clarify that something is literally on top of the bookshelf and not on one of the shelves as one might assume. Or you would use 本棚の中に when you need to clarify that something is inside a cabinet or compartment that's built into the bookshelf, and you would need to open it up to get that something out.

    Compare to a desk which could have both a top to put something on and drawers to put something in. There isn't an assumed "normal" place to put things. So you clarify by saying 机の上に for things on top of the desk and 机の中に for things inside it.

    Japanese as a language tends to drop unnecessary details. If your listener already knows or can assume a piece of information, it is often left out.


    is '本だなに七さつの本があります' not a correct way to structure the sentence?


    Placing "nana satsu" before "no" makes the 7(books counter) the possessor of the books. So its like saying the (in my attempt at translating this), In bookshelves the 7's book there are. Like the 7's have books.... not the other way round.... in fact thinking about it.... probably wouldnt work the other way anyway either, since that would say the book possesses 7.... the books 7, which i would imagine would work if u were talking about pages or something like that

    Correct me if im wrong... pretty curious about this now lol


    Putting 七冊の本 (nana satsu no hon) is a valid way to say "7 books". The の (no) in this case isn't showing ownership or posession, it's just modifying the noun 本 (hon).

    Here is a link that expands further: https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Japanese/Grammar/Counters


    So it is correct; the only issue is that it is not an accepted answer.


    I wrote: 本は本棚に七冊あります。 Why is using は instead of が after 本 wrong? Thank you :)


    I think your answer would be more like "The 7 books are on the bookshelf" instead of "There are 7 books in the bookshelf", because using wa would imply that you were previously talking on the topic of these books.

    I recommend this guide about the difference between wa and ga and please correct me if I'm wrong! https://8020japanese.com/wa-vs-ga/


    本棚に七冊があります can someone explain to me what's wrong with my sentence?

    Edit: Oh yeah, I'm actually missing the word 本 right?


    I did the same and would think to have heard that using such a specific counter as satsu it should allow to omitt the "hon" at least coloquially

    On the bookshelf the books are seven books exist as books on the bookshelf booked into booking books on shelved books bookshelf...




    Why do you leave out 上? In another lesson it has you use 上 when talking about books on top of a desk


    I believe it's actually very similar to English: Things are IN the bookshelf, but ON TOP OF a desk. In both languages, the latter expression uses less words.


    So the structure is basically: "Regarding the books, located on the bookshelf, there are seven of them." Sorry this just helps me to remember structure.


    If Duo would just translate things literally rather than into 'natural sounding' English this way it would save me countless headaches


    I wonder why 本棚に七冊の本があります is not accepted. I reported it.


    It's not incorrect, but it's also less frequent to phrase it like this if you are just trying to say new information, so most of the time it could be interpreted as a delimitation, kinda like saying "the seven books are in the bookshelf" in comparison to just saying "There are seven books on the bookshelf" in English. Not necessarily exactly like that, but that's the feeling I get from reading both ways.


    本棚に七冊の本があります。Why is this incorrect???


    If I understand the system correctly, there is only ever one built-in correct answer to any exercise. Any allowed alternative needs to be approved manually by volunteers. If you submit an answer that you think should be allowed but get it marked wrong, click on the "REPORT" link and select the option that says your answer should have been accepted. A volunteer will then check to see if they agree with you, and if they do, your answer will be added to the system as an allowed alternative.


    Why is「本棚に七冊の本があります」incorrect?


    本だなに七本があります。 what is the mistake?


    You put the number together with the book kanji, which is not how you count in Japanese. Hondata ni shichi hon ga arimasu is wrong. Hondata ni hon ga nanasatsu arimasu is right.


    Isn't it *hondana, not hondata? な vs た


    You missed 本が七さつ


    you're missing the word, "books", your sentence literally says, "There are seven counts/copies of (books) on the bookshelf."


    What does the "saü ari" means?


    If I understand correctly, the さつ (satsu) part is needed because the objects that are counted in this sentence are books. It has the same role as つ (tsu) when inanimate things are usually counted. Here is an example for comparison:

    いす が 七つ あります。>> There are seven chairs. (いす = chair)

    本 が 七さつ あります。>> There are seven books. (本 = book)

    Notice how the 七つ (nanatsu) part changes to 七さつ (nanasatsu).

    As for the あり (ari) part, that belongs to the あります (arimasu) part of the sentence, which basically means "there are".


    Ah! thank you ... now I know where I went wrong.


    I put 本は本だなに七さつがあります and was marked wrong. Why is it wrong to include the GA?


    「が」 Indicates the subject in this scenario. It has other uses, but for now, let's focus on its use as a subject marker. As you may have noticed, がand は are used after the subject of the sentence or as a particle between words. This is why が is not needed where it has been placed since there is no particle needed nor any subject before が。


    I wrote 本だなには七さつがあります, omitting the 本 after the さつ because I assumed that the book counting word was enough to imply that books were being counted. Is it really necessary to say 本 twice?


    さつ is a counter for books (depending on which kanji it is, it's a counter for paper money) and you have to state what item you are counting on the bookshelf. The way you structured your sentence seems almost like you're counting the bookshelf and not the books, because the way it works is that you put the item in subject before the particle.

    You're not really saying "本" twice in a sense of using the meaning of the character twice.

    本だな (hondana) means "bookshelf"

    本 (hon) means "book"

    I hope this helps.


    It accepted 本だな本が七さつあります Wondering if this is wrong, different, or ok?


    I'm sure that's wrong: you need NI after HONDANA.


    Would anyone be able to explain the particles used here? Why wouldn't it be "ほんにほんだなが..." since the books are in the bookshelf (に) and the number of books is the subject (が)?


    「本に本棚が...」 means "On the book the bookshelf..."


    Why is it not written 本が七さつに本だなあります?


    That would mean "There is a book on seven books; bookshelf."


    本が本だなに 七さつあります Hon ga hondana ni shichi matsu arimasu


    be careful, the counter (冊 - ”さつ”) uses the other form of the counting words - so it would be ”ななさつ”


    本棚の上に本が七冊あります。can't i switch the order of the subject and the location? or was i being too literal by using "ON"?


    本が七さつ本棚にあります is it correct?


    Why is ほんがほんだなにななさつあります wrong???? :(


    If you're using the counter specific to books, do you have to mention the actual word for book?


    It could also be 雑誌 (magazines)


    Does 本棚の上に mean something different than 本棚に ? Maybe the former means more literally on the very top of the bookshelf?



    Why did it mark it wrong? Ok, it may be a bit weird to specify that the books are "on" the bookshelf, but shouldn't this be correct anyway?


    Would the regular "seven things" be correct here? 本棚に本が七つあります。(it's not accepted)


    Why can't I say 「本棚に十冊の本があります」 ?


    What is the most natural order of Particle groups, like is Ga best first or Ni, or De, or Ha, or etc?


    I don't understand where the ga and the ni part are supposed to be.


    When you count items on their own you say 「本が七冊あります。」 (there are 7 books). So my brain thought, well.. you could just add 本棚は to the start and it would be regarding the bookshelf. But it was incorrect :(


    Also, I need help to understand the use of に particle in this case. I learned it was for movement and time, but these books aren't moving to the shelf! (maybe it's haunted)


    Adding 本棚は you just wrote "regarding the bookshelf, there are seven books" but what you're missing is "on it"; that's the role of に in this case. Otherwise the two parts don't relate to each other, you say you're talking about the bookshelf but then you talk about seven books.


    本棚に七冊の本があります was not accepted for me


    Can someone explain to me why 本が七冊に本棚あります is incorrect? TIA!


    The に needs to follow 本棚 (the location the books are). Also the 七冊 counter needs to be either immediately before the verb, or with a の immediately before the noun it is counting (七冊の本).

    The indivisible clauses that can be placed in multiple orders are: 本棚に > On/in the bookshelf 七冊 > Seven books(or similar objects) 本が > Books(the subject of the sentence あります > There are (This must be last)


    Because it's "there are bookshelf books on the seven", instead of "there are seven books on the bookshelf".


    本が七冊本棚にあります I tried this way of phrasing just for kicks, this way is also accepted


    「本棚に七冊の本があります」was marked wrong, is it really wrong?


    I can't say as to whether or not 七冊の本 is wrong, but I've never seen any object be counted like that thus far.

    Either way, a native would probably get what you mean, but I'd just stick with [object]がX[counter]あります。


    七冊本が本棚にあります。is accepted here but —冊本が本棚にあります。is not accepted in the previous question


    If I understand the system correctly, there is only ever one built-in correct answer to any exercise. Any allowed alternative needs to be approved manually by volunteers. If you submit an answer that you think should be allowed but get it marked wrong, click on the "REPORT" link and select the option that says your answer should have been accepted. A volunteer will then check to see if they agree with you, and if they do, your answer will be added to the system as an allowed alternative.


    i've clicked report for months on things which are confirmed to be equal nothing happened


    There are a limited number of volunteers and they have a limited number of hours and they are not getting paid to do this invaluable work for us. Sometimes it takes a while.


    This one dowsnt seem to be structured anything like the others at all, and I'm totally confused. I had several tries to memorize it, but I still don't understand. Can anyone break it down for me?


    本が books 本棚に on the bookshelf 七冊あります there are seven

    Variants can be 七冊の本が本棚にあります

    本棚に七冊の本があります 本棚に本が七冊あります


    Why is に before the number of the thing, rather than が which is usually there?


    think of those parts not as "before" but as "after"

    hon ga

    hondana ni

    see? [book the] [bookshelf on] [seven] [there are]

    also you can move [seven] before [book the]


    For future readers, the が doesn't mean "the" but it does mark the book(s) as the subject of the verb あります (exist).



    i was just trying to tackle the part where these things are attached at the end, instead of the front


    Why is 本七冊が本棚にあります。 wrong?


    Because が modifies 本、七冊 comes after it


    Weird that the counter for book isnt 本


    I'm having trouble comprehending the difference between 「本が本棚に七冊あります」 and 「本に本棚が七冊あります」. The former is the correct one and the latter is not accepted. However, in previous questions counting was shown to be "object - ga - counter". So why in this case of this question is "object - ga - object container - ni - counter" correct? Especially because に to my understanding is used to convey location of something, and が is used to convey subject, which in this case is the books in the bookshelf.


    The problem in the second is that particles are reversed. The English translation would be, "There is a bookshelf on the seven books."
    「本棚に 本が 七冊 あります」 should be acceptable (spaces for clarity and to indicate units that can not be broken up without changing meaning).


    What would be the difference between 本が本棚に七冊あります。and 本が七冊に本棚あります。? I used the later option and it counted me as wrong. I even checked it on different translators and both sentences get translated as the same.

    I would even say that the correct answer even sounds weird because you first specify that there are books on the bookshelf and then you add that there are only seven which looks like a mix of two sentences: "There are books on the bookshelf. There are seven on it".

    If the sentence was only "There are seven books" the answer is obviously 本が七冊あります。so why does adding "on the bookshelf" gets placed between the object and its counter. Also, wasn't the "ni" particle associated with location? so why is the "ni" between the bookshelf and seven. Shouldn't it be between the seven book and the bookshelf like as my answer? For me, it makes no sense.

    It is probably a grammar and syntax thing which I am not aware of.

    1. In Japanese Counters are either immediately before what they are counting with の. ie. 七冊の本 or immediately before the verb as in the standard acceptable response.

    2. The に needs to immediately follow the location of the action: 本棚に.


    本棚に七冊本があります. (Marked correctly) How is it different from Duo's answer?

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