"Is there pork in that store?"


June 16, 2017

This discussion is locked.


Sometimes, "mise" is fine for "store". But, sometimes it tequires "omise". Any suggestions to help me navigate when to use one or the other? Thanks!


お店 (おみせ) is just a more polite way of saying it. お is a prefix that is used in more polite language (e.g お茶/おちゃ instead of just 茶/ちゃ, お名前/おなまえ vs. 名前/なまえ).


So is it wrong to omit the お in this case?


No, not at all.


Depends on what you define as "this case". In this exercise you could omit the honorific. But this case could change depending on where and how it is used. Sometimes you need to use it (unless you want to be rude).


I define this case as a Duolingo sentence with no context saying "is there pork in that store?" Of course we want to be polite when we need to be polite, but there's nothing in the English to indicate the level of politeness. You could be talking to a stranger or your best friend. That's what I meant by my comment.


Then you're indeed completely right :)


Doesn't ある always come with が?


Generally, yes. But は can be used to add extra emphasis (you particularly want to know about pork as opposed to other items).


Also, try not to think of verbs going with certain particles. Particles attach to nouns and tell you how the noun fits into a sentence. Japanese particles are really just postpositions (like english prepositions).


〜が好き is another example. Is there any situation where one would say 〜は好き?


Sure. Maybe you're discussing likes and dislikes. 猫は好まないけど犬は好き。And probably most cases of 好きじゃない would use は.


But is there a reason that が would be wrong in this sentence?

[Edit: I'll answer my own question and say that it's not "wrong", but it is more common to use は in a question (depending on the nuance).]


そのお店には豚肉がありますか?would be much more natural. は in the middle of the sentence highlighting the meat like that feels very akward. The topic is most naturally expressed in the beginning of a sentence. Although there can be an entire sentence modifying the topic. E.g. 先の話したお店には豚肉がありますか?


Why is そのお店には豚肉ありますか wrong?


For proper grammatical purposes "butaniku" needs a particle after it, though particles can be omitted in casual speech.


I think because 豚肉 needs some kind of particle.


In real Japan you can use this and it is perfectly natural. You dont have to say が in between 豚肉 and ありますか. it sounds better with が though.


Real Japan? Is there a fake Japan as well?

It is casual and even natural to leave out particles, but it doesn't change that it is still technically incorrect... I guess this just plays into the debate whether casual language should be taught in a learning app or not.


Why is it は after みせ instead of で?

I was marked incorrect for そのみせで豚肉がありますか .


You use で to show where an action is happening, while you use に to show where something exists. あります (arimasu) is a verb of existence, so we use に with it instead of で (which you can see is the main answer at the top).

You can also use には with the place to put emphasis on it. It's like saying "is there pork in that shop?"




Why can't pork have the honorific 'o'?


I don't quite understand how the translation works. I'd interpret そのおみせにぶたにくはありますか as "as for the meat, is it in that store?" which is different enough from "is there meat in that store?" in meaning that it seems like it should be wrong. can anybody help clarify?


にく= meat. ぶたにく= pork. :)


The "as for" way of processing は isn't really a translation per se, it's a sort of hack to get your brain used to seeing the way japanese flows in an entirely different way from English. You're not going to see "as for" in every translated sentence, nor should you.


I answered そのおみせにはぶたにくいますか

Is that wrong?


Yes. Pork is not a living thing so you must use あります not います.


i wrote そのみせには豚肉がありますか?and was not accepted


It wants you to add the お honorific.

So, おみせ instead of just みせ. :)


There’s no reason why you have to say おみせ instead of みせ, though.


I just know from getting this exercise that it's what the answer banks will accept at the moment. Maybe it is like the difference between ふろ (bath belonging to me) おふろ (bath belonging to someone else)?

The good news is that the Japanese course will be getting a big update.Often, when a 2.0 tree is released, any 1.0 material that is kept gets an update to the answer banks. :)


That difference you’re stating about furo and ofuro is not a usual usage as far as I know. Many people refer to their own bathroom/bathtub as ofuro. With mise the honorific お is just to be more polite, so I would hope that みせ has been added to the database since you asked your question a year ago. I think it’s more likely that using には with みせ hasn’t been added to the database yet and just needs to be reported.


If I had used the keyboard instead of the tiles, that is what I would have written. I see it would not have been accepted. But 豚肉はその店にありますか was fortunately accepted without an お in front of みせ. I leave おみせ for women to say, or if I'm talking to the store owner.


I wrote the same thing and was not accepted. It seems to want store first, then pork.


When does は need to come after に and when can it be left out?


In this sentence, is は encapsulating そのお店に豚肉 as a whole or just 豚肉? I was wondering if you should have そのお店には豚肉はありますか, but it would make more sense if は grouped the whole first half instead.


Just 豚肉. そのお店に豚肉 doesn't hold together as a phrase. I agree with Silvyrfir way above in finding そのお店には豚肉がありますか a more likely question. Or without the は. I'm wondering if someone who said Duo's Japanese would be afraid the store probably doesn't have pork.


Looking at it again after you isolated it, it doesn't make sense as a phrase, thanks for the help.

My understanding with the はありますか vs がありますか, while it does have specific cases where it can only work one way, it generally is the difference in generalities. If you are being more abstract and posing the question of if there is chicken in the store, you go with は. If you are asking if there is chicken in the store because you want or need chicken, you go with ga.

The "idea" versus "Target" of a sentence. That is my takeaway after trying to read about this specific case/sentence formula.


Does anyone know why some characters pronounce some kanji differently? For example, the older woman character pronounced 店 as 'ken' or something along those lines. Is this an example of different dialectical pronunciations?


Kanji have different readings, so 店 can be read as "mise" or "ten" depending on the word.

店 (mise) - shop / store

店員 (ten'in) - employee of a shop / store

In this specific sentence, 店 can only be "mise" because we're talking about a store.

Unfortunately, the audio on Duolingo is not made by humans but is actually TTS (text-to-speech, a robot voice), so sometimes different TTS voices choose the wrong reading of the kanji, resulting in incorrect audio.

Learn Japanese in just 5 minutes a day. For free.