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  5. "わたしとわたしの友だちはオタクです。"

"わたしとわたしの友だちはオタクです。"

Translation:My friend and I are otakus.

June 17, 2017

62 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sprkr

Literally every Japanese person I have ever asked has told me this is not a thing you want to admit to. I'd be happy to corrected if this has changed in the last ten years, but unless it has, be aware that this doesn't have the same acceptability as nerd or geek in English, 電車男 notwithstanding.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kRj5jAW0

I agree. Also, I've never heard any native speaker use the phrase 私と私の友達。


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulianV007

How do you say 'me and my friends' properly?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RickGoGoGo

You mean 私の友と私?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joe264823

Watashi to tomodachi I assume.

But watashi to watashi no tomodachi might also makes sense if it's unclear whose friends it is.

Like in English, you probably also only say me and friends unless it's unclear I assume.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/woa7dSD5

I might well be wrong, but I seem to have seen/heard simply 友達と (tomodachi to) with the 私 (watashi) being implied. e.g. 友達と行きます。


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elbelleth

This is the way i've always been told, with 友達 being friend, and と translating to 'with' basically. Therefore, saying 友達と... Means with my friend I... For example, i would use it in sentences such as: 友達と漫画(まんが)を読みます。 I read manga with my friend. Or, 友達とイングランドにひこうきで行きます。 I go to england with my friend by plane. (I believe these sentences are correct, but feel free to point out mistakes if ive made them) But, this is just my understanding of the point. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joe264823

Absolutely I mean it has a to, so it has to be with someone.

I think genki had it too.

But there might still be occasions where watashi might be necessary to avoid confusion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yoitsbilly

It's not and really disappointed DuoLingo decided to double down on these embarassing stereotypes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mtthwcrlsn

Except there must have been a japanese person accepting these sentences and writing them down in the first place... You can't pin it all on Duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KansaiBene

I'm not sure why you think any of the phrases that Duolingo uses are so well done and natural that they must have been approved by a native Japanese speaker...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sakata_Kintoki

A lot of sentences in these last sections of the Japanese tree are cringe-worthy. So I'd say it's doubtful that all of them were checked by a native speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yuzuling

Otaku in Japan and Otaku in America are two different things. Saying this sentence outside of Japan would be fine. Here it just means someone who really likes anime. In japan it's more like what nerd was in the past. And it's not just anime, you can be a ディズニーオタクor the worst 電車オタク。Geek and nerd culture has really become accepted in America. But オタクand 腐女子 are negative there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joe264823

One should never be ashamed who he is.

Hey that taxi driver was proud of his class.

If I'm an Otaku I'm proud to be one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarra_Kumagai

I had some students who openly said that they were otaku, so it has been changing. Also kids may not even know Densha Otoko anymore.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Crysenley

As far as I know it's still something to not be proud of. Especially with the troubling population decline from lack of offspring.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joe264823

As far as I know there are also people who consider others naive or mentally weak who just judge by what is popular.

And I'm sure even in Japan there are individuals.

Always be yourself, if you think you are an Otaku. Seriously how crazy would it be to not say it.

It's not like every brain is wired the same, and there is a gene that says That person is so bad I can never see him again or I have to vomit.

Not to mention otakus are still humans


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AstroVulpes

What's a "train man" (「電車男」)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lerosbif

「電車男」is a well-known Japanese novel about a man on a train who intervenes when a drunk man starts to harass several women on a train. He ultimately begins dating one of the women. A primary part of the plot is that he is an otaku.

"Densha Otoko is a popular example of the 'nice guy' class of Japanese geeks who wish to lead normal lives, but are too shy to find a girlfriend, or speak openly anywhere but online."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/howcheng

When I lived in Japan it was the same, but I think in recent years it has become less of a stigma.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gdobei

"... but unless it has, be aware that this doesn't have the same acceptability as nerd or geek in English, 電車男 notwithstanding."

(Sorry this is not a question about Japanese.) I'm not a native English speaker; what does 'notwithstanding' mean here? I've come to understand that it means 'in spite of', but "in spite of 電車男" doesn't seem to fit here. Does it mean that: 1) except 電車男, which is a more acceptable term, OR 2) not even 電車男 (though maybe cuter but still not acceptable)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lerosbif

Don't worry. As a native English speaker, I also had to think about this sentence for a moment.

Your original understanding is correct. "in spite of" is the correct meaning. The novel「電車男」captured the Japanese public's imagination with a positive, sympathetic depiction of an otaku. It was remade several times as a manga, live-action film and TV drama. Sprkr says that despite 「電車男」, the acceptability of otaku in society remains low.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anothernobody

Perhaps enthusiast would be more acceptable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/L-native

It still seems a negative word in Japan. When will they have an otaku pride?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnneNogu

This is flat out cringeworthy. If you're talking to a normal Japanese person, don't say this. It has negative connotations and sound really childish to be honest.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DEcobra11

It is even more cringeworty when you notice it decided to use my friend as one person xD


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anguria

Ok, so duolingo thinks that if we are arrived at this point with our knowledge of japanese, we are certainly otakus and we like maid cafes and things like this :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bjrnv.a.

Well, I mean, are you saying you're not a weeb?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErinKeiko

I feel like they really just took the stereotype of "otaku" rather than trying to find/explain the original word. In my class, my professor (a native Japanese speaker) explained to us that "otaku" didn't originally mean to be a nerd or geek or anything of that type. It means something more akin to a recluse. 'o' is the honorific, and 'taku' is house/home. Just a little disappointed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Impetus5

"my friend and I are recluses" lol


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EquanimousLingo

One should say they are "engrossed in something, like movies, comics or whatever.." 漫画に嵌っています。それとも映画にハマってるif speaking casually.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yuzuling

Yep when calling someone you can ask, 「何何さんのお宅ですか」 so house uses kanji お宅 and nerd オタク is katakana


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mystiques-wish

You can be "otaku" for anything (anime, trains, cars, robots, etc)

"Enthusiast" would be the closest nuance to the neutral meaning of it in Japanese, but since the idol boom from 2010, otaku as we know them anime/manga wise have become mainstream and support that industry by the billions.

So there's less stigma about it now but it's not something you'd fully admit, no :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lerosbif

Instead of otaku, you can also use マニアック

It's much more commonly used by average, middle-age Japanese people and has less of a negative perception. You'll hear this in Japanese English as well.

'Are you a maniac?'

It sounds hilarious, but actually they're just asking if you are an enthusiast of something.

'Yes, I am an antique maniac.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cvictoria42

The English "fan" originated as an abbreviation of "fanatic", so it's basically the same idea


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John863934

Does this have anything to do with "Hex Maniac" from Pokemon?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DestinyCall

I will have to remember this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sealiony

lmao what is wrong with people in the comments? literally losing your minds that the app is teaching a phrase. its not telling you to go scream it to the world. chill out and accept your inner weeb


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chartsman

Exactly, theren are a lot of ridiculous sentences in the course, the point is to practice and be creative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julia78021

Why is Duo calling me out


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/walgen

interesting. in chinese, you have words that are derived from otaku, namely 宅男 and 宅女, so gendering it first, and then also these words don't have any sense of creepiness. just means a homebody who is introverted and lazy basically.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/walgen

as i said on another otaku thread here, there was an otaku serial killer in the 80s, if you're curious about where the cringe factor comes from. not that i think all otaku are serial killers. just fyi.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vivalaashutosh

I and my friend are otakus wasn't accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cvictoria42

You can also say "Me and my friend" in informal English. But "I and my friend" just sounds weird, mixing formal and informal grammar


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pamela973130

I wrote my friend and I and it was marked wrong. The correct answer was ME and my friend - that is wrong!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sonoravise

If anyone gets far enough to practice this sentence and says it in earnest anyway... eh, let 'em sink.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ninefoldrin

It's bad enough that you're calling yourself an otaku... Don't bring your friend down with you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacquesChristian

"I and my friends are otaku". Nobody ever says "Me is smth" therefore when you talk about yourself and co in this context it will always be "I and smbd are". Of course, if it is smth like "let's talk about me and my friends", then you won't say "about I and smbd". Well, at least I think so)). There is always more context)). Pretty strange that there is such a wrong use of an English phrase when one gets used to always see right English grammar on Duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dr.Sleepless

In English you put yourself last when talking about a group (My friends and I/my friends and me). When that is before the verb, you use "I". After the verb, you use "me"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ari_97

Whats a more natural way of saying "My friend and I" in Japanese?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SwathiSuda

This app knows it's target market.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarah256302

I'm still confused: is "watashi to watashi no tomodachi" a common/natural phrase in Japanese?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CRLoper

No, it's not. If you are with your friend, you can simply say, "watashitachi...", but if perhaps you are talking about you and your friend who is not physically there you could say "watashi to tomodachi...".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sara1190

Where my train otakus at?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tara7777

I know in English we say "My friend and I", not "I and my friend". But in Japanese it's the other way around here. Why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/massoluk

People don't usually say this...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KanKanMikan

me and my friends are nerds(it just doesn't sounds right)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MattSpano2

I don't think you should be proud that you're an otaku

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