"わたしとわたしの友だちはオタクです。"

Translation:My friend and I are otakus.

1 year ago

80 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/sprkr
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Literally every Japanese person I have ever asked has told me this is not a thing you want to admit to. I'd be happy to corrected if this has changed in the last ten years, but unless it has, be aware that this doesn't have the same acceptability as nerd or geek in English, 電車男 notwithstanding.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kRj5jAW0

I agree. Also, I've never heard any native speaker use the phrase 私と私の友達。

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JulianV007
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How do you say 'me and my friends' properly?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SleepsWithCats
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My friends and I

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RickGoGoGo

You mean 私の友と私?

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Joe264823

Watashi to tomodachi I assume.

But watashi to watashi no tomodachi might also makes sense if it's unclear whose friends it is.

Like in English, you probably also only say me and friends unless it's unclear I assume.

3 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/woa7dSD5
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I might well be wrong, but I seem to have seen/heard simply 友達と (tomodachi to) with the 私 (watashi) being implied. e.g. 友達と行きます。

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Joe264823

Absolutely I mean it has a to, so it has to be with someone.

I think genki had it too.

But there might still be occasions where watashi might be necessary to avoid confusion.

1 week ago

https://www.duolingo.com/yoitsbilly

It's not and really disappointed DuoLingo decided to double down on these embarassing stereotypes.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mtthwcrlsn
Plus
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Except there must have been a japanese person accepting these sentences and writing them down in the first place... You can't pin it all on Duolingo.

8 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/KansaiBene

I'm not sure why you think any of the phrases that Duolingo uses are so well done and natural that they must have been approved by a native Japanese speaker...

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sakata_Kintoki

A lot of sentences in these last sections of the Japanese tree are cringe-worthy. So I'd say it's doubtful that all of them were checked by a native speaker.

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Tiffling
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Otaku in Japan and Otaku in America are two different things. Saying this sentence outside of Japan would be fine. Here it just means someone who really likes anime. In japan it's more like what nerd was in the past. And it's not just anime, you can be a ディズニーオタクor the worst 電車オタク。Geek and nerd culture has really become accepted in America. But オタクand 腐女子 are negative there.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Joe264823

One should never be ashamed who he is.

Hey that taxi driver was proud of his class.

If I'm an Otaku I'm proud to be one.

3 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Crysenley

As far as I know it's still something to not be proud of. Especially with the troubling population decline from lack of offspring.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Joe264823

As far as I know there are also people who consider others naive or mentally weak who just judge by what is popular.

And I'm sure even in Japan there are individuals.

Always be yourself, if you think you are an Otaku. Seriously how crazy would it be to not say it.

It's not like every brain is wired the same, and there is a gene that says That person is so bad I can never see him again or I have to vomit.

Not to mention otakus are still humans

3 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sarra_Kumagai

I had some students who openly said that they were otaku, so it has been changing. Also kids may not even know Densha Otoko anymore.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/howcheng
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When I lived in Japan it was the same, but I think in recent years it has become less of a stigma.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AstroVulpes
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What's a "train man" (「電車男」)?

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lerosbif

「電車男」is a well-known Japanese novel about a man on a train who intervenes when a drunk man starts to harass several women on a train. He ultimately begins dating one of the women. A primary part of the plot is that he is an otaku.

"Densha Otoko is a popular example of the 'nice guy' class of Japanese geeks who wish to lead normal lives, but are too shy to find a girlfriend, or speak openly anywhere but online."

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jase821355

too real

2 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/gdobei
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"... but unless it has, be aware that this doesn't have the same acceptability as nerd or geek in English, 電車男 notwithstanding."

(Sorry this is not a question about Japanese.) I'm not a native English speaker; what does 'notwithstanding' mean here? I've come to understand that it means 'in spite of', but "in spite of 電車男" doesn't seem to fit here. Does it mean that: 1) except 電車男, which is a more acceptable term, OR 2) not even 電車男 (though maybe cuter but still not acceptable)

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lerosbif

Don't worry. As a native English speaker, I also had to think about this sentence for a moment.

Your original understanding is correct. "in spite of" is the correct meaning. The novel「電車男」captured the Japanese public's imagination with a positive, sympathetic depiction of an otaku. It was remade several times as a manga, live-action film and TV drama. Sprkr says that despite 「電車男」, the acceptability of otaku in society remains low.

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/L-native
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It still seems a negative word in Japan. When will they have an otaku pride?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Joe264823

Sprkr but that is not entirely true. People drive in shame cars.

They are openly otakus.

So it's surely not the entire populace , maybe the people you talked to are just really old or uptight.

I saw a Japanese movie that's 20 years old, were a normal salary man becomes otaku. It was basically a love declaration to the otaku culturem

You see YouTube videos of arcade otakus.

There are many proud otakus.

You otakus that write mangas, just look at all the fanzine otakus.

2 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kaens
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Sure it has changed; just look at the localities investing in anime (to announce how you should stop just running from the country to Tokyo as soon as possible) and making anime characters the local mascots. It's not a minority anymore.

That said, you definitely don't say "I'm a nerd" other than as a joke, be it in English, Japanese, or whatever other language... If you're an otaku, say you like Japan, comics, and video games, start from there maybe?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JahredW

I haven't heard nerd used as an insult of any sort since I was in elementary at least. In fact it was probably more socially acceptable when I was in high school to say you were a nerd than to say you were a jock. Full circle as they say.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnneNogu

This is flat out cringeworthy. If you're talking to a normal Japanese person, don't say this. It has negative connotations and sound really childish to be honest.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DEcobra11
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It is even more cringeworty when you notice it decided to use my friend as one person xD

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

So is your spelling ;D

2 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ErinKeiko

I feel like they really just took the stereotype of "otaku" rather than trying to find/explain the original word. In my class, my professor (a native Japanese speaker) explained to us that "otaku" didn't originally mean to be a nerd or geek or anything of that type. It means something more akin to a recluse. 'o' is the honorific, and 'taku' is house/home. Just a little disappointed.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/EquanimousLingo
Plus
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One should say they are "engrossed in something, like movies, comics or whatever.." 漫画に嵌っています。それとも映画にハマってるif speaking casually.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Impetus5

"my friend and I are recluses" lol

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Tiffling
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Yep when calling someone you can ask, 「何何さんのお宅ですか」 so house uses kanji お宅 and nerd オタク is katakana

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Anguria
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Ok, so duolingo thinks that if we are arrived at this point with our knowledge of japanese, we are certainly otakus and we like maid cafes and things like this :(

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Bjrnv.a.

Well, I mean, are you saying you're not a weeb?

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lerosbif

Instead of otaku, you can also use マニアック

It's much more commonly used by average, middle-age Japanese people and has less of a negative perception. You'll hear this in Japanese English as well.

'Are you a maniac?'

It sounds hilarious, but actually they're just asking if you are an enthusiast of something.

'Yes, I am an antique maniac.'

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/cvictoria42

The English "fan" originated as an abbreviation of "fanatic", so it's basically the same idea

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

Does this have anything to do with "Hex Maniac" from Pokemon?

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DestinyCall

I will have to remember this.

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mystiques-wish

You can be "otaku" for anything (anime, trains, cars, robots, etc)

"Enthusiast" would be the closest nuance to the neutral meaning of it in Japanese, but since the idol boom from 2010, otaku as we know them anime/manga wise have become mainstream and support that industry by the billions.

So there's less stigma about it now but it's not something you'd fully admit, no :)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dumark53
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Never heard this Japanese word before, but could it be "fan"?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/walgen
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as i said on another otaku thread here, there was an otaku serial killer in the 80s, if you're curious about where the cringe factor comes from. not that i think all otaku are serial killers. just fyi.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/nekojima

That guy is one of the reasons I would never be caught dead saying this to an older Japanese person.

6 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JacquesChristian
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"I and my friends are otaku". Nobody ever says "Me is smth" therefore when you talk about yourself and co in this context it will always be "I and smbd are". Of course, if it is smth like "let's talk about me and my friends", then you won't say "about I and smbd". Well, at least I think so)). There is always more context)). Pretty strange that there is such a wrong use of an English phrase when one gets used to always see right English grammar on Duolingo.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dr.Sleepless

In English you put yourself last when talking about a group (My friends and I/my friends and me). When that is before the verb, you use "I". After the verb, you use "me"

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/vivalaashutosh

I and my friend are otakus wasn't accepted

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/IsolaCiao
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https://www.duolingo.com/cvictoria42

You can also say "Me and my friend" in informal English. But "I and my friend" just sounds weird, mixing formal and informal grammar

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sealiony

lmao what is wrong with people in the comments? literally losing your minds that the app is teaching a phrase. its not telling you to go scream it to the world. chill out and accept your inner weeb

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/chartsman
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Exactly, theren are a lot of ridiculous sentences in the course, the point is to practice and be creative.

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ShuriRose

Yea, not sure why they would include this as everyday speech

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/IsolaCiao
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It's in the "subculture" section, which I would consider to be the opposite of everyday speech.

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/walgen
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interesting. in chinese, you have words that are derived from otaku, namely 宅男 and 宅女, so gendering it first, and then also these words don't have any sense of creepiness. just means a homebody who is introverted and lazy basically.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Pamela973130

I wrote my friend and I and it was marked wrong. The correct answer was ME and my friend - that is wrong!

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Julia78021

Why is Duo calling me out

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Tara7777

I know in English we say "My friend and I", not "I and my friend". But in Japanese it's the other way around here. Why?

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RadyaA
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Weeaboos*

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ari_97

Whats a more natural way of saying "My friend and I" in Japanese?

6 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sonoravise
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If anyone gets far enough to practice this sentence and says it in earnest anyway... eh, let 'em sink.

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SwathiSuda

This app knows it's target market.

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sarah256302

I'm still confused: is "watashi to watashi no tomodachi" a common/natural phrase in Japanese?

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/337bilyoushi

私が先なので、文の始まりはiではなのですかね

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kaens
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本的にはそう言いますが、殆どの会話では"me and my..."になります。

8 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RobertKinzie

The DLJapanese spell checker didn't like 'otakus' and suggested 'out takes". I didn't fall for THAT old trick :-)

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/massoluk
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People don't usually say this...

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

私と私の弟はポケモンのオタクです。

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sarah982345
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The term オタクhas a negative association in Japanese culture. They're usually lumped together with ひきこもりand ロリコン. If you admit to being オタクin Japan、people might distance themselves from you. (This is just my experience from watching tourists while living and going to university in Osaka)

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ninefoldrin

It's bad enough that you're calling yourself an otaku... Don't bring your friend down with you.

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mateu-san
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So, I know that this word used in Japanese means "insane, crazy" rather than "geeky."

You can compare it to nerds in Spain calling themselves "frikis" from the English word freaky.

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mariza117439
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As an alien living in Japan, I regularly mix Japanese and English, but I seen no reason why we shouldn't use an English word for "otaku" in this sentence.

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lhKmRJ
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I and my friend

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sebastianjraw
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'Tis grammatically incorrect so no luck, I'm afraid.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TomsAquino4

It is not gramatically incorrect. It is just not used much (people say Me and my friend more often, or use a different ordering). There is a politeness rule that some people adhere too, though, that puts yourself after others in the sentence. However, since usually the order matters in these Duolingo translations, I think not accepting I and my friend is not right.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PabloArias470876

In English and Spanish too, you always use the I last. You have to use I here nectar it is a subject pronoun for yourself. I is doing the action, Me can't

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/John863934

???

2 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/WolkZayets
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"Me and my friend" is technically incorrect, since "me" should not be used as a subjective case pronoun. It's like saying "Me like blueberries" or "Me do homework". Argh.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/avidrucker
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It's weird in English to say "I and my friend..." , but I can't say exactly why. Something about distance from speaker in lists which include the speaker seems relevant here. However, 私と私の友達は。。。seems okay. Not sure if it works in Japanese to switch the order here or not...

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SamirMall

My friends and I, I and my friends are both gramatically correct. Duolingo should try making answering these questions little less frustrating. It was out of such frustration I stopped learning German on Duo.

1 year ago
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