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"I study with my friend on Sundays."

Translation:日曜日は友達と勉強します。

June 26, 2017

110 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/burnsbs

What does the し do?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fukai20

It's from the verb する (to do), but in ます form. So you have べんきょう, which I understand isn't a verb, and put the する after it and kind of make it a verb. I know it's used with a lot of foreign words, but I'm not sure how often it's used with others.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

If it is an action noun, it will have a high chance that you can put する after it to make it as a verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/borffffff

Why is it "勉強します" and not "勉強をします?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

Because it is a compound verb made by adding a noun to the verb します - this is very common in Japanese. 勉強します - to study, そうじ します - to clean, りょうり します - to cook, けんぶつ します - to sightsee or to go sightseeing. を is not used because べんきょう is not the object of the verb - it's part of the verb. Noun + する = compound verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jhol0613

Doesn't the lesson say that the を is optional in these cases? Sometimes Duo seems to accept it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

Some things to think about whether を should be used:

1) Not all nouns can become "suru verbs". If you look on jisho.org, you'll see that "benkyou" is listed as a "suru verb", meaning 勉強 (benkyou) is a noun meaning "study" and 勉強します (benkyou shimasu) is a verb meaning "study". The word "tenisu" is not listed as a "suru" verb, so テニス (tenisu) is a word that means "tennis", but in Japanese you can't just make "tenisu" into a verb, you have to say "do tennis (play tennis)", テニスをします (tenisu o shimasu), where "tenisu" is the object of the verb and needs to be marked by を.

2) You can say 勉強します (benkyou shimasu) or 勉強をします (benkyou o shimasu), but the grammar and nuance is slightly different. 勉強します is a verb meaning "study". 勉強をします has "benkyou" as the object of the verb "shimasu", making the meaning "do studying".

3) People drop particles in speech all the time, even though it is not grammatically correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

Just a note that we can say 買い物する (jisho.org is not correct). https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/37086/meaning/m0u/%E8%B2%B7%E3%81%84%E7%89%A9/

Basically most of the action nouns can be used as [object]+を+[noun]+する or [object]+の+[noun]+をする if it is transtive


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

Thank you for pointing that out. I'm a bit confused, though, because I thought kaimono was a suru verb and brought it up in another thread, and another user looked it up in their dictionary and said it wasn't listed as a suru verb.

Weblio says "買い物をする" and Sanseido says it is not a suru verb. Kotobank says it is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

hmm 買い物する sounds natural enough to me so I am sure the usage is ok. I tried to find out an example where the noun + する is natural to me but the dictionaries say otherwise. An example is デュエル (duel) where I find people say デュエルする (mostly with all sorts of card games). On the other hand for the word テニス (tennis), I feel unnatural to say テニスする (The goo dictionary does not say it can, so it is good). Well I think we can stick to any dictionary but just bear in mind it is more conservative that what people are using.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

My issue is that everything sounds okay to me without を because I'm so used to native speakers dropping particles, so I'm really trying to understand the correct usage. I wonder if 買い物 didn't used to be a する verb but has become one...

Sports are a great example of non-suru nouns, so I'll edit my original post to avoid confusion, thanks for all your help!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amodeus_R.

Why not 日曜日に?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

I think when you talk about a habit (something you do every Sunday), it's better to use は, and when you talk about one specific time (this Sunday only) it's better to use に. Either can be correct, though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kana332264

This is why understanding grammar and connotations is so very important.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexMitl

Shouldn't it be で then, because an action is taking place? Instead of に


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

No, で does not normally mark a time. It marks locations or methods


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VOIZCRACK

Would 毎日曜日、友達と勉強しますwork?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

From HiNative:

Question

When you want to say something like "every Sunday" is it correct to say "毎日曜日(まいにちようび)"?

And if not, what is the correct way of saying that something happens every week on the same day?

"I eat pizza every Sunday" = 毎日曜日ピザを食べます?? は 日本語 で何と言いますか?

Answer

毎日曜日 is not used often.

毎週日曜日 is better.

私は毎週日曜日にピザを食べます。


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stepanmosh

It told me I am wrong when I typed 日曜日は私の友達と勉強します。I can't understand what's the problem there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fap.G

Same problem here. I guess it's just unnatural to say the 私の referring to your own friend, as people will guess you don't learn with THEIR friend although you don't know them. It's more likely to add a (someone)の when you're not talking about your own friends ore stuff.

Anyway, I think Duo should accept it, as it is not grammatically incorrect - and when you're hovering over the "my", it still makes you think that you should add 私の (as the Japanese lessons here are still not developed well enough to differ translation of words in different context, as you can see with the kanji pronunciation).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KrazyTako

really confusing since in another sentence their answer had 私の友達 in it...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ameryst

How do you know you will study every Sunday, as opposed to next Sunday only?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

If you were studying every Sunday then nichiyoubi would be modified/preceded by maishuu no - meaning (of) every week. If you were saying next Sunday you would likewise have a qualifier - in this instance raishuu no nichiyoubi - Sunday (of) next week.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoreyTappan

Is を Ok here instead of と?It is my understanding that を Represents action


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

を (instead of と) here would be incorrect. を follows the direct object of the verb (ie. in this case it would be what you are studying), however there is no direct object in this sentence - the sentence does not state what you are studying with your friends, just that you study with friends on Sunday. If you were to replace と with を you would make your friends the direct object of the verb and the sentence would mean I study my friend(s) on Sundays. と follows nouns to show whom you are performing an action WITH - in this case, the speaker states that they study WITH friends on Sundays. Please also note my and KeithWong's comments above in response to a query with a similar mistake.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Axe609

So if I'm understanding right. 日よう日は友だちと英語をべんきょうします would be the right way to say "On Sunday I am studying English with my friends" as を makes the idea of studying become about English?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DreVinci

@Axe609 that's correct. In the original answer, if you were to replace と with を, that would change the sentence to mean "I will study my friend on Sunday".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

を makes English (or whatever it follows) the direct object of the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kana332264

To be literal, を indicates direct object of action OR indicates subject of causative expression​ in most common cases. It has quite a few other applications, but those are what you see in most cases.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TyrantRC

「日曜日は友達と勉強します」

【にちようびは・ともだちと・べんきょうします】

The と particle here expresses mutuality, it's translated as "with".

also if you want to memorize 日曜日 the first kanji 日 is the one for "sun" and "day", couple with 曜日 "day of the week" is literally Sunday.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lucas462436

is 日曜日友達と勉強しています wrong? i learn that "ています" form can be use to describe routinely actions, since he study with his friend Sundays, looks like a routine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

I think ok, but it would be better if the English is "I am studying with my friend on Sundays" because I believe English has the similar continuous tense usage.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kana332264

If you want to talk implications "I am studying with my friend on sundays" means that it's a set activity that cannot be changed. "I study with my friend on sundays" would imply that it's a common activity, but it's fine to make other plans.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DustInCompetent

What's wrong about 日よう日友だちとはべんきょうします?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

you don't need that は after the と


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

If you want to put the 友だちと as the subject, normally it should come in front of the sentence. i.e. 友だちとは日曜日に一緒に勉強します


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DustInCompetent

But it's not wrong, is it? Also, I read that は can be omitted after the day. Duolingo didn't accept my translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

Duo didn't accept your sentence because they have a specific sentence and specific grammatical constructions/words in mind that they are trying to teach with that sentence in mind. This is very common with Duo - the other day someone asked why instead of changing the ending of a verb so that it meant 'and' and could join two sentences together Duo wouldn't accept joining two sentences together using そして. I responded that likely it is because Duo is trying to teach us that you can change the endings of verbs so that they act like a conjunction and can be used to join sentences together, whereas if Duo wanted to teach how to join sentences together using actually conjunctions then their sentence would be acceptable. Make sense?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rhodii

Sorry, but what's the "to" (と) for in the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

と following a noun - specifically a noun that is a living creature - human/animal indicates that you are carrying out a certain action WITH that noun. For example if you were walking with your dog then と would follow dog to indicate that you were walking with your dog - 犬と 散歩します, or if you were talking on the phone with your mum - 毎日母と でんわで 話します - I talk on the phone with my mum every day - here と follows 母 to indicate that 'mum' is the person that you are talking with. Also, scroll up and have a look through all the comments above, と and its function in this sentence has been queried and discussed at length in the above comments.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexmojorisin

why is 日曜日は勉強友達とします wrong? but 日曜日は友達と勉強します


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Swisidniak

勉強します is the verb "to study" and you've placed a "with my friend" in the middle of it.
勉強 is a する verb but 勉強友達と is not
If you're going to separate the verb into a noun and a verb to say "to do a study" it would be 勉強します but it still sounds the most natural to have the direct object near the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexmojorisin

I understand now, thank you both


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

It should be ni, not wa because it's indicating a specific time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

に is optional for most of the time/date words. は is also optional as it is just marking the topic for discussion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KansaiBene

日曜日に Implies that it will happen on Sunday, and not on Sundays in general.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArielHor

Which part of this sentence is saying that apart from my friend, I am also studying with him/her?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rayzorblade23

That would be the と particle, meaning with and and as far as I know. It's also implied that the speaker is the subject of the sentence. Corrections on this are welcome.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

No part of the sentence is saying that you are studying with a male or female friend. It just states that the speaker is studying with a friend.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kana332264

I believe 毎週日曜日は友達をべんきょうします should be accepted. The "wo" adds emphasis on "my friend" as opposed to "I study with friend"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

Your sentence translates to English as: "Every week, on Sunday, I study my friend."

So definitely it has a different meaning as "On Sundays, I study with my friend."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kana332264

KeithWong is correct and i was wrong.

That being said, it does not accept "every sunday" as an answer even when it is written correctly without wo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

That's because the original sentence doesn't say EVERY sunday - just on Sundays in general - maybe they miss some Sundays or they only study every other Sunday, so they're not studying every Sunday.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

Agreed KeithWong - I was just about to say that putting を after 友達 makes it the direct object of べんきょうします - which means I study my friend instead of I study WITH my friend. Also I believe there should be a の between 毎週 and 日曜日 - Sunday (of) every week.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jimi012

Can someone tell me what's the difference between hiragana characters よ and ょ (the last one is a bit smaller). I keep getting failures because I don't have the smaller hiragana yo character in my sentence. I'm so confused. Shouldn't there be just one よcharacter and that's all?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jimi012

I forgot to mention that if I just type yo on my Japanese Windows IME it transforms it to the hiragana letter よ. If I want to have the smaller one I need to scroll throught all the suggestions to the bottom to get that smaller one for my sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

Try typing lyo or xyo. If you want べんきょう, then you type "bennkyou"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jimi012

Ok, thanks. Still I can't entirely understand why are there 2 different characters for it but this helps a lot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

The small ょ is used to modify the sound of the previous sound, in this case き (ki) + ょ (yo) -> きょ (kyo). The number of time measures becomes 1 for きょ (kyo) instead of 2 as in きよ (kiyo).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vbnzq

Here is "one friend" in question and "tomodati" in correct answer. That confuses me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

Most nouns in Japanese are both singular and plural. 友達 (tomodachi) can mean "one friend" or "friends".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HaruhiSuzu6

Why is there a と after 友だち?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

It means with in this instance and it follows 友だち to show that the speaker is performing the action with his/her friend (s).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marcus171079

I know it hasn't been taught yet. But shouldn't the てform be used if you want to say that it happens every sunday? 日曜日は友だちと勉強しています? Otherwise, doesnt it just say 'i will study with a friend on sunday'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

-masu form can be the future tense, or it can be the present tense when talking about a habit. The -te form means that you are doing something right now.

勉強します。 (benkyou shimasu)

[future] I will study.

[present] I study (as a regular habit).

勉強しています。(benkyou shite imasu)

[present progressive] I am studying (right now).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanFogart4

The tile for 達 gets read aloud as とおる in the man's voice. This is a reading for names only (名乗り) which surely is irrelevant . . .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

Contributors aren't able to control the reading that the TTS chooses and have asked us to report problems with audio with the methods described here: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/32352336


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichaelGal160845

I switched study and friends, why doesn't that work?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaLydiate

Basic word in English is subject verb object and while 'with my friends' is not the object here 'I' is the subject and 'study' the verb so 'I study' should come first in the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Neko9Salad

if i want to make the topic of the sentance a person rather than 日曜日, would it be like this for example? : "彼は日曜日に友達と勉強します"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

Yes, that's possible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DiTomato

日曜日は私の友達と勉強します - why is 私の here marked as wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

It probably hasn't been added to the database because most Japanese speakers tend to drop possessive pronouns. If you submitted an error report, it should be added.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vitorpdsg

why is it not 勉強をします??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Raspymorten

I had to take like a month or two off studying Japanese due to some personal stuff, and boy is it hard to get back in. But I'm gonna keep trying.

Anyway, would like... "On Sundays, My friends and I study together" be the more direct Japanese to English translation here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FenixWang86

Can this answer be correct "日曜日、友達とは勉強します。" or why it is wrong?


[deactivated user]

    友達「とは」勉強します →i study "only" with my friend (i never study alone or just classmate!)

    ex) Mr.A 「普段映画見に行くの?」 Ms.B 「うん、彼氏"とは"行くよ」

    Ms.B don't go to the movies except her boyfriend.

    But you are not wrong. We use a lot of "とは" in Japan. Little bit harder to use it for non-native


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

    But you can also continue the conversation as 「じゃあ、俺とは行かないの?」「いいえ、お前とも行くけど」

    The とは just denotes a comparison between two things - in your case 彼氏 vs 友達 but we don't know whether other things also hold true or not.

    We always say は is a "comparison" or "contrast" marker, along with the "topic" marker. We don't say it is a "limit" marker. "Only with my friend" is better written as 友達とだけ.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dylan_Nicholson

    Any reason it would be weird to use 一緒に after と here? Other very similar examples do just that but not accepted here...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kayla832513

    Why is it tomodachi to benkyo and not benkyo to tomadachi? Shouldn't study be first since it's the main subject?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Swisidniak

    勉強します is the verb here "To study"
    と is the particle "and/with" that marks "friend" as the person who you are studying with
    友達と - with my friend 勉強します - study/do study
    Reversing them would change the meaning and wouldn't make sense 勉強と友達します - [With a/the study][do friend]


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Booga04

    what does the "と” mean in this


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

    It means "with".

    • 友達勉強します。 (tomodachi to benkyou shimasu)

    I study with my friend.

    • マリア勉強します。 (maria to benkyou shimasu)

    I study with Maria.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marumaru81702

    So I don't have to put in the particle 'wo' if there is already 'to'?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

    を isn't used in this sentence because there is no direct object (we don't know what is being studied, just that I study). You can still use を if you specify what you're studying.

    • 友達と日本語を勉強します。 (tomodachi to nihongo o benkyou shimasu)

    I study Japanese with my friend.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gantogoo

    Is it possible to say 友達と日曜日で勉強します?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

    No, you can't use the particle で to show the time when something happens. You could use に as in 友達と日曜日に勉強します, but I think it would be most natural to put the time first.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JackBond

    So I got ”日曜日はパーティーをしました” wrong because I omitted the を.

    This time I added the を and it suggests I can also omit it. Clearly I'm not understanding the rule here.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Swisidniak

    Whether or not a を is needed depends on if the noun being done can also be a する verb. Not all nouns are able to be directly linked to suru (though in colloquial speech particles tend to drop anyway).
    勉強 "study" is a suru verb, so you can either 勉強をする "do a study" or just 勉強する "study"
    パーティー isn't a suru verb though, so you only パーティーをする "do a party"

    There isn't a specific pattern to what is and is not a suru verb (other than logically some nouns you just can't turn into a verb). There are also some verbs that you may think would be a suru verb but aren't (釣り "fishing" is not a suru verb, so you can only 釣りをする "do fishing", but never directly 釣りする "fish")
    Dictionaries will usually tell you if it can be used that way or not.    

    勉強 https://jisho.org/search/%E5%8B%89%E5%BC%B7

    Noun, Suru verb
    1. study​

    パーティー  https://jisho.org/search/%E3%83%91%E3%83%BC%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3

    Noun
    1. party (gathering, celebration, etc.)​

    Here's some links with more info on -suru verbs and how they function a bit differently
    https://www.lingual-ninja.com/2018/10/suru-shimasu-do-japanese.html
    https://www.imabi.net/suruverbs.htm


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Saphira974282

    Interesting how the app gives you 毎週日曜日 as the translation for "on Sundays", but then doesn't allow it in the answer -_-


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MariaSteph122997

    Hi, can someone help me T v T I answered "every sunday" because the question says "Sundays" so I assume its habitual thus I added 毎週日曜日. How can I differentiate "Sunday", " Sundays" and "every Sunday"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dylan_Nicholson

    毎週日曜日 isn't an unreasonable way to answer it given how it's phrased in English. It's possible if relating a story in historic-present that "I study with my friend on Sunday" could refer to a single time you did so, but in 99% of cases it would imply it's an ongoing arrangement, i.e. "each/every Sunday", just as per "Sundays".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ggSpatZz

    What is the function of "と" in this sentence


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ggSpatZz

    Thank you ♥️


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/STL_Swaiyan

    What the point of と here


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsolaCiao

    If you check the previous comments, a similar question has been asked and answered: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/23250371?comment_id=49479417


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OpticGD

    I'm confused regarding the order of 友達 and 勉強. I assumed they would be the other way round?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daylight94979

    勉強 is a so called "suru-verb" which means it is usually a noun but you can combine it with する (or its polite form します) without any particle in between to form a verb. Because of that, 勉強します in its entirety is the verb of this sentence (and not just します). Therefore it has to be put at the end of the sentence.

    勉強します = "to study"
    勉強をします = "to do studies" (which would often also be translated as "to study" since that sounds more natural)

    If you use the particle を and と however, it can lead to confusions, because と also means "and". 友達と勉強をします sounds like "I do my friend(s) and studies.", therefore in that case, the other way around with 勉強 first, 勉強を友達とします, is preferred.

    Both 勉強を友達とします and 友達と勉強します should be fine.

    Not all nouns are suru-verbs. For example パーティー from the other questions is not. Which means パーティー always requires an を if used with します and hence "I party with friends" would generally be パーティーを友達とします, for the previously explained reasons.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshSlone1

    So is this just a coincidence or how it usually is?: i will study with my friend on sunday (in english) is backwards in japanese. Shimasu (i will) benkyo(study) to(with) tomodachi(my friend) wa/ha(on) nichiyobi(sunday)? :3


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bcm124556

    on Sunday 日曜日に on Sundays 毎週日曜日に


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RafatSakib

    Can I use (Ni) instead of (wa) here?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrejPetter

    what about 勉強と友達


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Swisidniak

    Remember that particles always come after the word they are marking.
    と being "and/with"
    勉強と means "With studying/with a study" which wouldn't make any sense here
    友達と is "with a friend"

    友達 also is not a verb; you cannot 友達します 'do friend'
    友達と勉強します "With a friend I study"
    勉強と友達します "With a study I do friend"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JasonA444500

    Could you use "benkyo o shimasu" or would that not work here?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithWong9

    Yes you can, and it works for most action nouns. (をxxします=>のxxをします)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daylight94979

    To elaborate a little on what Keith said:
    There is practically no difference in meaning between 勉強をします and 勉強します, but there is a grammatical difference:
    勉強をします is the direct object 勉強 (study) and the verb します (to do)
    勉強します is one verb as a whole (to study)
    The difference becomes apparent when you want to modify them:
    日本語を勉強します <-> 日本語の勉強をします
    Both mean "I study japanese", but the first one uses 日本語 as the direct object for the verb "to study", while the second one uses 日本語の to modify the noun "study". Again, they mean the same thing, but use a different grammar structure. On the other hand: "日本語の勉強します" or "日本語を勉強をします" would both be grammatically wrong.
    That grammatical difference is relevant for this sentence because the particle と can also be used to link two nouns, so you have to change the sentence order a little to make sure that you're still saying "I do it with my friend" and not "I do it and my friend":
    友達と勉強します -> "I study with my friend."
    友達と勉強をします -> "I do my friend and study."
    勉強を友達とします -> "I study with my friend."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JasonA444500

    Thanks for elaborating on that!

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