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  5. "Sie hat keine Verwandten."

"Sie hat keine Verwandten."

Translation:She does not have any relatives.

June 29, 2017

62 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kirsten514279

Well that's depressing


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DmitriyRud

Why, sometimes it's a real blessing


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FRANCELAVOIE

why a "n" at Verwandten


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Verwandter inflects like an adjective.

After keine, you have mixed inflection (which is the same as strong inflection in the plural), so the adjective takes the weak ending -en.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doc844077

Typically lucid explanation. Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElibeyElili

still didn't get :'(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YoussefLeo

Any time you have a determiner before a plural (the noun being described) adjective: add an -en.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

Sebastian752519, In German they call "keine" an indefinite pronoun but they call its use "adjektivisch" here because it does not replace a noun, but rather describes a noun. More confusing, this particular noun "Verwandten"is formed from an adjective and still declines like one.

https://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/kein

https://www.verbformen.com/declension/adjectives/verwandt.htm

It also depends on which determiner precedes the noun if it were not plural. This is "mixed declension" which is used with "kein", "ein" or a possessive pronoun (again used as an adjective) such as "mein". (We would say possessive adjectives in English.) Weak declension which follows the definite article (der, die, das and all their forms which happen to be strong so the noun does not have to be) is also simple for plurals -en. I wonder if Mizinamo meant to say "the same as weak inflection" in the plural rather than strong as it "takes the weak ending -en" The strong inflection or declension follows the same pattern as (der, die das) changing by case in the plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoMoreRomance

I didn't get it yet either. It's German it will sink in after awhile. We have to get used to it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anita107177

I am doing the same. Write it fown and carry on.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hendsalahu

Sad thing i don't understand what inflection means here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

German words change endings for gender and number (masculine, neuter, feminine and plural), for case (Nominative, Accusative, Dative, Genitive) and for whether a definite article precedes it (der, das, die, die in Nominative case changes endings for the noun, so the noun doesn't have to) and the noun has a Weak inflection, or whether an indefinite article or posessive adjective precedes it (mein, mein, meine, meine in Nominative changes less so the noun also changes endings) and the noun has Mixed inflection, or finally none of those already mentioned precede the noun, so the noun must show Strong inflection which has the same endings as the definite article would have.

https://www.verbformen.com/declension/adjectives/verwandt.htm

https://germanwithlaura.com/declension/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnetteKahn

Germans will still understand what you are saying and realize you are simply a little confused.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertHJMa

'She has no relatives' Surely is correct too?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CapnDoug

Yes, that is correct (and accepted).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gabrielle474586

where does the breakdown of this word come from? ver+wand


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

It's unanalysable in modern German, but is ultimately related to wenden "turn".

Apparently, verwenden used to have a meaning something like "turn to each other", so people who were verwandt were turned towards each other helpfully, and this meaning later narrowed down to "related".

Now, only the past participle verwandt is used as an adjective; used as a noun, the adjective means "a relative".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoMoreRomance

We should all have some family like this or even some friends. In English the noun is relative and the verb is relate. When we say relate it means people that we understand or understand us no matter what we do or how crazy it is. So it has somewhat of a different meaning. Just my 2 cents and if anyone is interested. Relate doesn't mean we depend on them or they depend on us. Just an interesting idea.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RJLewis6

So there are no parents, grandparents, aunties, uncles, brothers, sisters, cousins or great grandparents? Why


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Henroriro

I suppose because this is "Family 2", you'll find the ones you named in the first lesson.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bright_flash

When I hover over Verwandten, it says that the word is of feminine gender. However, it can be masculine as well, with the singular form Verwandter, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Yes and no.

Verwandter inflects like an adjective, so the ending depends on whether there's an article in front of it and if so, what kind.

So you have, for example, der Verwandte but ein Verwandter when speaking about the/a male relative, and die Verwandte, eine Verwandte when speaking about the/a female relative.

In the plural, there is no difference: die Verwandten, keine Verwandten would be for male, female, or a mixed group.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moley0603

You say the plural is always "Verwandten"; so why in the same section did I just encounter' "meine Tanten und Neffen sind Verwandte"? I am still not clear about this word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

die Verwandten when the definite article die is in front of it.

Verwandte when there is no article or other determiner (diese, meine, alle, …) in front of it.

It inflects like an adjective so the endings can follow strong, weak, or mixed inflection depending on what comes before it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nancy783127

I wonder if you can clarify this for me. You say it inflects like an adjective, which I understand. What I don't understand is how that leads to an -n ending in third person plural accusative. Wouldn't you write: Ich habe die grüne Bücher? Or am I completely wrong and it's "die grünen Bücher"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

It is die grünen Bücher.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan.Sraml

What about "she has no kin"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doublelingot

"she does not have family members" is not accepted, why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoMoreRomance

Family members would probably be another translation in German Famiglie members? Sorry I don't know how to translate this into German yet. I got this word from google translate Familienmitglieder Just saying hope this helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CapnDoug

Many societies understand family through ideas of living together, the sharing of food, etc. and have family members that are not relatives.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luciano718211

Why isn't "she hasn't got any relatives" accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Just a missing alternative -- added now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luciano718211

Thank you very much!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoMoreRomance

I guess it's better to have some crazy screwed up relatives that none. Or maybe some good ones and bad ones.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GirolamoF87517

Why is my answer: She hasn't any relatives Accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

UK English forms have to be reported as also correct, sentence by sentence. This course is taught from American English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fedz13

Sie hat keine Verwandten, correct translation shows "She does not have any Relatives." Question: where the word "any" came from?

"She does not have Relatives" (without "any") is incorrect? Why/How?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Question: where the word "any" came from?

It's a kind of plural indefinite article in English -- keine can be "not any" in the plural much like how it can be "not a" in the singular.

"She does not have Relatives" (without "any") is incorrect?

No; that's another accepted translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VivaldiHandel05

No gender article determiner= no -n!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

What is the point of your comment?

Were you trying to answer someone else's question?

Were you trying to say that Duo's sentence is wrong? (It has the determiner keine which ends in -e for plural accusative, which is why Verwandten takes mixed inflection, with -en for plural accusative.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VivaldiHandel05

Kein is an “ein” word, just like possessive pronouns!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Kein is an “ein” word, just like possessive pronouns!

I think you mean like possessive determiners.

kein and ein are indefinite articles and thus determiners, just like possessive determiners such as mein and ihr.

"Possessive pronouns" is a term that, I think, is best reserved for words that stand instead of a noun (= a pro-noun) rather than in front of one.

The corresponding pronouns inflect differently: keiner, einer, meiner, ihrer etc. for masculine. Keiner ist teurer als meiner! "None of them is more expensive than mine!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VivaldiHandel05

What are inflections anyway?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

What are inflections anyway?

When a word changes its shape for grammatical reasons -- adds an ending, changes the internal vowel, whatever.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VivaldiHandel05

Oh, please give me some examples besides Verwandte vs. Verwandten.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Don2077

Why not "Sie hat Verwandten nicht"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CapnDoug

"Sie hat Verwandten nicht" is like saying "She has not relatives."

"Sie hat Verwandte." - She has relatives.

"Sie hat keine Verwandten." - She has no relatives.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gabor123

Ich habe viele Kinder - Ich habe keine Kinder

Ich habe viele Verwandte - Ich habe keine Verwandten (with "n"!)

What is the difference?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Verwandter is a noun that inflects like an adjective, so it's sensitive to the presence or absence of a determiner before it.

kein is a determiner and causes mixed inflection in a following adjective -- so since keine already has the -e that shows "plural accusative", the "adjective" Verwandten takes the weak inflection -en.

viele is simply an adjective -- there is no determiner here and so all adjectives take strong inflection, and both viele and Verwandte end in the -e that shows plural accusative.

Kinder, of course, is a regular noun and so "weak/mixed/strong inflection" do not apply to it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gabor123

Thanks a lot! So you say Verwandter is an irregular noun from this point of view? Is there a common name for these nouns?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

So you say Verwandter is an irregular noun

No; it's completely regular -- it just follows a different set of rules than, say, Kind, much like, say Mensch or Bär follow yet another set of rules (which explains why they're den Menschen, den Bären, den Namen etc. ihn the accusative).

Is there a common name for these nouns?

"adjectival nouns" seems to be one term used for them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BitMap04

Why wont it take my answer 'She does have a relative'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Why wont it take my answer 'She does have a relative'?

  • The German sentence contains keine, so it is negative -- but your sentence has no negative word in it.
  • The German sentence has plural keine Verwandten (plural accusative), but you used singular "a relative".

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matthew258389

Somehow I got marked right with "she's no relative"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

You didn't know that "has" can also be contracted in for example "She's been there." ? Unfortunately, Duolingo's programming cannot tell when it is correct to use the contraction and when it would be confused with the contraction for "is".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matthew258389

The latter point is what I was referring to, which combined with typo allowance meant I accidentally conveyed "she is not a relative" rather than "she has no relatives"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anna875576

You mean living reletives

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