Has anyone tried watch alot of a tv series/movie after learning Vocabulary or Grammar?
I've heard stories of someone watching alot of tv series/movies of a language and it taught them so much vocabulary and a general basis for grammar. I understand this myself as i spent 1007 hours of Japanese anime watching with English subtitles and agree that you pick up on "some" vocabulary and a base for grammar (not how to use grammar but when you start to learn it, it makes alot more sense to you more quickly)
My question is, how many have decided to learn alot of vocabulary of a language or alot of grammar or alot of both and then decided to immerse yourself in another languages tv series/movie. What were the results?
I'm currently learning Japanese and Swedish. I watched the 1007 hours of Japanese before i started learning Japanese. For Swedish, i've watched very little of Swedish media as i prefer to study vocabulary of the language. I've watched no anime since and barely any.
I'm currently nearing 3000 words learnt in Swedish (according to Memrise) and 1250 words for Japanese. I've can make Swedish sentences, some with conjugation errors other times the sentence might not make sense at all. For Japanese, i roughly know how to use particles and conjugation of nouns. I can understand spoken Japanese (if i know the words) although it's still a bit fast and speak it to a somewhat decent amount of success. For Swedish however it's the complete opposite, i can't speak it nor listen to it at all as it's wayyy to fast.
If i was to start watching Swedish media now, would you think i would reach a better improvement than if i studied alot more, lets say i reach 6000 words of Swedish learnt and i've learnt Swedish grammar and decided to watch the Swedish media then?
What are your thoughts?
Vocabulary and grammar are important, but they won't be enough to actually use a language. I love Memrise, but it's quite limited. You could have a huge vocabulary, but unless you know how to use it, it won't do you any good. You also need to practice speaking and/or writing and listening. I don't believe that you can learn a language by just studying vocabulary and watching movies. They help, but you need more than that. If you had done 1000 hours of language classes, your Japanese would probably be a lot better than it is now.
I lived in Japan for five years, and learned it while I lived there. I watched TV in Japanese and talked to people every day and by the end of my time there my Japanese was quite good. Now I am learning Turkish, but I don't live in Turkey. My understanding of grammar is quite good, and I have a good vocabulary. It hasn't helped me in being able to use the language. I can't speak Turkish properly even though I have the vocabulary because I can't think of what to say. I can't understand much when I am listening to Turkish. When people talk to me, I usually don't understand them. There is no point watching movies because I can't understand anything. Subtitles are not helpful because I read them and don't bother listening carefully. Movies are interesting, but I don't think they are a great way to learn a language at the beginning. Later, I know that they will be very helpful.
Here is my solution to my language learning problems. I think that the best way to improve your language ability is to speak or write it. That's why Duolingo is useful. You get to write and speak sentences in your target language. If only I had a reason to tell someone that the crab drinks milk! In the case of Turkish, I know that listening is going to be the key to my language improvement. I am working on my listening by listening over and over again to language learning materials and focusing on the grammar and vocabulary. Once I have understood a grammar point or some vocabulary, I need to use it by either speaking or writing. Every time, I use the language by speaking or writing, my language improves.
True but i'm not the type of person to talk to anyone so that's far from possible in my circumstance. I do make sentence on occasion randomly and ask if it's right. That's about it. For me since speaking isn't possible; listening, vocab and grammar are the only ways of learning the language for me. (plus writing but i wouldn't count that as "study") Thank you for your imput :)
Coming up with original content is really important for language learning. If you don't want to converse, writing your own things can help boost your learning. I recommend joining Lang-8. It's set up so you can indicate a base language and a target language. You write stories or essays in your target language. Then, people who speak the language you are learning come and help you correct your grammar etc. And you can return the favor. It's a great resource for non-conversational language exchange. :)
It's not really the fun factor, it's just that once you start treating a tv show/movie as a piece of study material, you instantly loose the feeling of immersion within the movie. I'm not sure with you but for me, my favourite movies are the ones that stay memorable to me.
I could do it with music since you listen to it 100x over and not meant to deliver a meaningful story like a movie/tv series does.
I watch quite a lot italian films with subtitle on youtube.com, but I think it's getting effective, when you are already at an immediate level. And the language gap between English and Italian is quite small compared to Japanese and English. Italian is level 1 for English speakers, and Japanese is level 5.
the best thing works for me to watch a series like "startrek enterprise" first in your own language and then in your target language.
There is a language course at DL for Japanese now. Have you tried that out?
Not yet, i've switched over more to Memrise and use duolingo to discuss things but i might give it a chance since i'm still lacking in Japanese grammar. And yeah, Swedish is level 1 as well. I might do it later as you say since i was more leaning to that side anyway :)
Thanks for the reply :)
After finishing my German tree I have watched around 200 hours of shows and movies in German and still watching more. I do it without subtitles and as a result I didn't understand almost anything at first. It was getting better and better all the time and eventually now I can watch a movie or show that I don't know and will understand perfectly what's going on. I can also isolate words that are unknown to me and either figure out what they mean from the context or search them up or just go on...
I would say it's not much about learning new vocabulary this way but about being able to effectively use the vocabulary that you pasively know from before. It's different when you just translate a simple sentence here on duolingo and when you're supposed to understand the same words from hearing them in a new sentence spoken full speed in between other sentences... :-)
For the start I would recommend watching something that you already know from other language so it won't be so frustrating.
Hmm. I feel that having no subtitles seems so far fetched in people being able to eventually understand it. Is it fustrating at first as i tried watching a swe video once with swede subs and found it very discouraging that it seemed that all my vocabulary i learnt was for naught when watching that video. I agree with you for the "use in context" tho since i've done that occasionally with jp music.
Using subtitles makes you better at reading but won't help much with listening. Not to mention that after a while it becomes easier to listen fast than read fast. Reading fast is also a good skill but can be acquired by actualy reading texts and books rather than by reading subtitles.
I'm somewhat amazed that you watched 1000 hours of anime without becoming fluent in Japanese (at least comprehension wise). Perhaps it being an Asian language makes it more difficult, or perhaps the videos didn't vary much in the use of the language? I think Swedish being a European language you should find it a lot easier using the video method, given that metaphors seems more similar across European languages. Not that I've learnt an Asian language that deep but, I have heard the metaphors are quite different.
As for my experience the video method works for Italian, but I don't know any Swedish except for names of stuff from IKEA =P.
I have also used the method for Mandarin, and it seems to work so far (~5 hours) but I don't really have the time pursue it further at the moment.
I almost never use subtitles, but I don't think it's a problem to watch stuff with them, as long as you do a bit of both.
Back when I was learning Japanese in uni, I watched a lot of anime. I started walking away from the television to make myself lunch or dinner without pausing the show. I was able to follow more over time without having to check the subtitles. I encourage people to ween themselves off of the subtitles eventually. :)
That's basically the way I learned English. First came Harry Potter, after 1 or 2 years of learning English in school, because I didn't want to wait for the translation to come out. It was the fourth book and I didn't even notice Diggorys death, but I got through it somehow and still learned a lot!
After that I also started to watch a lot of TV and movies in English, most of the time even without subtitles (most of the time they weren't available). It helped that one of my favourite shows from my childhood only had DVDs with the German audio for the first two out of five seasons. It's also the main reason why my English accent is all f-ed up. I learned the British pronounciation at school and while I watch some British shows, I also watched a lot of American TV/movies. ;)
After I while you should turn off the subtitles or set the subtitles to the language you are learning! Without subtitles you will also free yourself from your own language, which is important to get some degree of fluency. You'll also be able to get the nuances of words that might have the same translation in your first language.
What I think is most important is to stop thinking you have to understand everything at all times. You get a lot out of context and it's okay if you don't remember what you learned it the day after. It will be inactive for a while, but still be there in a way the next time you come across the word. You'll also improve your grammer and "just know" what sounds natural and what doesn't, even without knowing the exact rules, just like a child.
When I changed schools two years before graduating, everyone had about 3 years of English lessons on me (because it was my second foreign language, I learned French first). I still was top of my class.
I'm currently starting to immerse myself with Swedish by reading the first Harry Potter (about 10 pages in), despite not being done with my tree. I don't think there's a number of grammar rules or words you'd have to know to start. Just do it!
If you haven't already you should definitely check out readlang! You can read along with videos and songs or read texts and websites (via a plugin) or upload an ebook you want to read. By clicking on a word you can see the translation and readlang automatically saves a flashcard for you.
I haven't heard of that before. I'll definitely try it out. How exactly do you read it? Just simply reading it in a foreign language or do you write down unknown words for translation later or...? I agree with the "most important is to stop thinking you have to understand everything at all times" but that's hard when all you want is complete fluency :(. Doesn't help i have no experience of learning a language completely and successfully like you for French first.
Thank you for the imput though :)
If you can get an .epub version of a book, you can use ReadLang. Then, if you don't recognize a word or a phrase (up to 8 words long), just highlight them with your mouse and it will give you the translation. Much faster than constantly going to a dictionary. It also works on most websites. If you like fanfiction, it is compatible with fanfiction.net. And, fanfiction.net makes it easy to search for fanfiction in your target language. :)
I actually don't know French as well as English, probably because I didn't watch and read as much in it. So my learning experience when I started English was just the typical school stuff.
I get that it is hard to let go of that way of thinking. It seems contradictory to fluency, but is a way of getting there in my opinion . To me fluency is when I think in a language and stop translating word for word. By accepting context as "enough" understanding, I can just concentrate on the text and stop the thoughts in my first language a bit.
I don't make any wordlists when I watch TV/movies. It's enough if I get the story. I do when reading though and add some words to Anki (a spaced repetition software.), but mostly ones I think are important to understand the story. If I get it from context I often just leave it. But while my ereader has a dictionary, I'm sometimes just too lazy to add words to a list. So it's only words I deem important enough, words remember to have looked up before and/or I couldn't have guessed from context.
I also go through my readlang wordlist every once in a while and add the ones I want manually to Anki. (Even if I could I don't read Harry Potter on readlang, it's more comfortable and less strenuous to the eyes to read on my reader. I love using the site for other texts though.)
That I read Harry Potter in Swedish is partly because it helped me with English and also because I know the books so well it's not a new text to me and I know what the words should mean.
For me spoken Swedish is too fast to understand as well, at least at the moment. I watch some videos on readlang with the text at the same time, but mostly concentrate on reading at the moment. I think when I have a better vocabulary by just reading for a while, I will also understand the spoken language a bit better.
Maybe you could watch animes once with English subtitles, once with Japanese (if available) and once without? So you slowly start to let go of English after a while if you understand enough?