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- "In questo momento lui sta ca…
"In questo momento lui sta capendo il calcio italiano."
Translation:At this moment he is understanding Italian soccer.
202 Comments
A very unwieldy English sentence. Not technically incorrect but not a construction any native English speaker would be likely to use.
I don't know what's more confusing, understanding the Italian sentence or it's English equivalent.
This is technically incorrect English, since 'understand' is a 'state/stative' verb which is not generally used in progressive/continuous tenses. However, we're learning Italian and it's important for us to understand the literal translation even though we would not use in it English.
"tense" is, uh, technically not the right word here. It's "aspect." The problem in the English sentence may be "at this moment," as it is suggests an instantaneous event or experience. "Day by day he is better understanding the game of soccer" is surely quite natural...understand in that sense suggests something ongoing rather than stative, like "grasping" in its metaphorical sense. That might be a more "literal" translation. (As a linguist and translator, I would say that the word "literal" must be used quite cautiously. Another misleading term is "word-for-word translation," suggesting that such is more accurate. It isn't.）
I believe a better sentence in English would be: "At this moment he is learning to understand Italian soccer."
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learning is an ongoing activity. this seems to be an epiphany (in questo momento) no 'imparare', 'istruirsi', 'apprendere', 'acquisire', etc,
if you said "in questo momento ha iniziato/cominciato a imparare..." that would work, but then 'capere' might be a better choice than 'imparare'.
I agree, I think he's having an "a-ha!" moment about the way Italians play the game.
No, that doesn't sound right. You COULD say "He is getting to/beginning to understand."
I have never heard anyone say that they are understanding. You just understand!
In English I wouldn't use the gerund here - "At this moment he understands Italian football"
Of course! But here we have to translate literally and ignore the usage of English tenses!
If anyone wants to understand Italian football I can recommend "Calcio" by John Foot. Very interesting, funny at times, finally somewhat downbeat - recommended to anyone interested in Italian society, culture and history even if you have next to no interest in football. Which I haven't.
Please do not try to use the word "soccer" in Italy - it definitely won't be the "correct solution";)
Wrong ;) Not in Italy, anywhere in the world. I guess 'F' in UEFA and FIFA stands for a reason ;)
Comon misunderstanding! Soccer is not originally an American word. Football is the generic term and includes many different codes. In England the two main types are Association Football and Rugby Football. In the last century these were colloquially referred to as Soccer and Rugger, although those terms are now obsolete.
Does 'sta capendo' mean that he is beginning to understand it? Otherwise, I can't place the use of 'sta'. I mean, it's not something you do for just a little while.
Yes, using the progressive implies that there is a process going on. I would say something like, "He's figuring out Italian soccer." He's had some kind of "aha" moment.
Semantically and grammatically, this is a much better translation. Could a moderator tell us why it has not become the main translation after 4 years ?
We don't use the action form 'is understanding' much; mostly the passive. Officially it is not incorrect english, just... unwieldy as kevmur (above) so accurately states. I think GastonDorr's suggestion is an excellent way to think of this word in gerund format.
In English, stative verbs like 'understand' are not usually used with the continuous (-ing) forms.
Agreed. And unlike other stative verbs like 'love' (people now actually say 'I'm loving this', I've never heard 'understand' used like this before. I'm going to mark the English sentence wrong. https://www.perfect-english-grammar.com/stative-verbs.html
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then, is the Italian also wrong or is it untranslatable or do you have a suggested translation?
The Italian sentence is correct and the English sentence is unusual (because the verb "to understand" is not usually used in the continuous present tense). The way to express an ongoing understanding of something in the two languages is different.
Why won't it accept "at the moment"? Much more natural than the correct solution
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'at the moment' (al momento) means 'presently and until further notice' (at the moment the policy is to...) 'at this moment' (a questo momento) means 'right now'. this, of course, is the source of the awkwardness of this sentence which is in present progressive tense and the qualifier doesn't match that.
Yet 'at the moment', 'at this moment' and 'right now' are synonyms, as far as I know.
At this moment sounds better than in the moment to me but 'at the moment' or just 'Now' would be more natural. Is that so far from the meaning of the Italian sentence?
Most of Duolingo sounds like a very surreal National Geographic documentary about humans (not to mention, spiders, bears, turtles, etc ..) ;-)
"Still, it is not very clear to him what Mihajlovic is doing at Milan, but he accepts it anyway, glad to have had this incredible learning experience that will be useful to him for his future in Italy"
If that is any consolation the italian sentence is just as cumbersome. Progressive forms have a very limited use and natives would just say "in questo momento lui capisce il calcio italiano", should they ever need to convey such an odd concept.
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Like 'know' and 'believe', 'understand' is a non-continuous verb in English (called state or stative verbs by some). DL got this right in another question / thread in which 'sta credendo' was translated as 'believe'. I just posted a comment in another thread about 'hear' and 'see', which are likewise not usually used in the progressive, except when hallucinating. For a number of other English non-continuous verbs, see https://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-m_vmwct_1.htm
Very "Carry On Up The Khyber" - 'I am not understanding you memsahib Hattie Jacques'. (Sorry, probably a reference only British over-50s will get...)
I think that many people who give a comment on this or other sentences forget that Duolingo ist trying to teach us, in this case, the Gerundium and is "constructing" sentences so they "fit" for the respective lessons. Therefore we cannot expect that the formulation always meets the expectation of each and everyone here. Just take a step back and remember this is all for free !!!!!
EdithA.Tressl, Thank you! You're absolutely right and I couldn't agree more.
"At this time" and "At this moment" in this context mean pretty much the same thing. The former should be acceptable too.
artskinner: I agree, as others have as well. What I wonder is whether the Italian construction sounds as awkward -- and that's something only a native can answer.
Understand is a stative verb and not dynamic, which means it can't be used in the continuous form.
SueRyall2: If I'm understanding you correctly, I'm having to agree. :-)
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In English we do not use modal verbs in the present perfect. "Yes, I am understanding" = no better way to say "I am from a foreign land, and I speak broken English." Once again, this speaks to the idiocy of translating everything into English instead of the language we're trying to learn.
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Haha, on the other hand when they don't use a translation close to the literal one, lots of Anglos cry because how come Italian doesn't translate directly? Poor lads from Duo don't have an easy task.
'Understand' isn't usually used in progressive tenses, which makes this sentence sound odd.
surprisingly this discussion helped me appreciate one the nuances of Italian time maybe "in questo momento io sto capendo che cosa italiani pensano di tempo" meaning right now I have a continuous understanding of the Italian concept of time. It didn't start right now and it may go away later, but within the context of the current moment, I have a feeling of understanding it. Just like "he" is understanding calcio italiano. Understands would imply something that couldn't be taken away "is understanding" implies something different, it feels continuous, but only in the context of this moment. So, while it may be more idiomatic in English to say "understands" when one does, one loses some subtlety. Moreover, understands implies completion, where as "is understanding" suggests something that is happening but is not complete yet, so there are facets that are understood, but the complete understanding still may take more time....
Although "At this moment" is now accepted, DL are still insisting on the continuous form with "understand", which is dreadful English. Reported yet again 12.8.16.
It is about an amnesiac who understands only one thing at a time and only for a single moment. Beautiful. Sad.
RachelBla12: Before forgetting he's heard to exclaim: "Soccer to me!"
kevmur is right on. Rather than "is understanding" any American would say, "is beginning to understand" or "begins to understand". You could even try "starts understanding", but not "is understanding".
"At this moment he understands Italian soccer" not accepted and reported 1/1/18
clickit...Given the opening time phrase I feel the sense of the sentence is best rendered as: At this moment he's come to understand Italian soccer.
Nothing, "soccer" is used in the US and "football" in the UK. Please report if the latter was rejected.
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Native UK English - this would never be spoken. "at that moment he understood Italian football' or 'NOW he understands It football' maybe 'Finally, he understands Italian football' depending on context. This DL is a a straight translation, but not an English native speaker sentence.
"at this moment" is the correct expression. Also, "sta capendo" (= getting to know, figuring out, learning) is different from "capisce" (= understands).
It is indeed unusual because "to understand" is a stative verb. More usual translations are suggested in other previous comments.
Reference: https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/grammar/intermediate-to-upper-intermediate/stative-verbs
The comments here tie in with what I have written elsewhere in this section. In English, understand is fundamentally stative in meaning. capire derives from Latin capere 'grasp', a common metaphor for "understanding," cf. German begreifen. "He is undertanding more and more about Italian soccer" is natural English, suggesting that he repeatedly has "learning moments." But the English translation here is, as many have pointed out, quite faulty. But that doesn't matter. What's important is how STARE + GERUND differs semantically from BE + V-ing.
I see no semantic difference between the Italian "stare" + gerund construction and the English Present Continuous for non-stative verbs, eg walk, eat, write. I think you meant that the former may be used for any verb in Italian and the latter is not usually used for English stative verbs such as "to understand".
Yes...I'd like to know more about the semantics of STARE + gerund constructions. In English, the present progressive is now obligatory in some contexts; it isn't, for example, in Shakespeare's language: "She speaks, yet she says nothing." (Romeo) Parla, ma non dice niente. One would say in contemporary English: She's talking but isn't saying anything...There's nothing archaic about the Italian here, i.e. one doesn't have to say sta parlando ma non sta dicendo niente...In English, the present progressive can be used with a future implication: "Hey, I'm not telling anyone anything about that!" How about Italian?
In Italian you cannot use the present progressive for the future, only for actions in progress.
I now realize that the question is one not of futurity but rather of intention/will. a. I'm not risking my life for your cat! (You can ask your boyfriend for help in getting it down from the tree!) b. I'm not risking my life for your cat! (But rather for your dog.) (a) might be in Italian "Non metto a rischio la mia vita per il tuo gatto!" (b) might be rendered in the progressive form. Native speakers?
If it’s “I am not (currently) risking...” you can use the progressive. If it’s “I am not risking (anytime in the future)...” no.
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Hmm, I'm going to take the chance and proclaim the English sentence potentially wrong! Here's my reasoning: "to understand" is a non-action verb which makes it wrong to use it in a continuous tense. Some verbs can be used as both "an action verb" and as a "non-action verb", for instance "to have" - you would never use its non-action meaning (the one expressing ownership, belonging) in a continuous tense, like "I'm having a car." as "having a car" is not considered an action. However the action meaning can be used in a continuous tense, for instance "I'm having dinner right now.", as "having dinner" is considered an action (in this case "having" means "eating"). I just don't see how "to understand" could be considered an action-verb.
The main English translation on 05/03/2020 is indeed wrong. That has already been explained in older comments, please check them before posting.
The crucial factor is not action but rather process or change of state. The verb "understand" can describe both a state and the process of perception. "My hearing aid battery may need recharging, as I am understanding less and less of what you are saying." I see that Japanese is one of the languages you are studying. In Japanese, the -te iru construction varies in meaning according to the semantics of the verb. taberu 'eat'/tabete iru '()) am eating." But hareru 'become clear' is a process verb, so "sora wa harete iru" doesn't mean 'the sky is clearing' but rather 'the sky is clear'. shinde iru doesn't mean 'Is dying' but rather 'is dead.' motsu means 'take', but motte iru doesn't mean 'is taking' but rather 'has'.
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the translation is not English. Before i scan down the comments, i can see 163 instances of people finding this translation worthy of comment. My contention with it is that the progressive tense is indicating that he suddenly understands Italian football, which can be perplexing (remember when Channel 4 ran the Gazzetta Football Italia about the time Paul Gazza Gascoigne joined Lazio from Spurs?). Football is a far more (or was then) strategic game in Italy than in Britain, where the emphasis was always on physicality, so watching it on telly could be for the uninitiated, boring- until suddenly you get it, and it becomes fascinating. At that moment, you understand Italian football, and you are hooked. You are not understanding at that moment, you understand. Hence i reported this, 30/07/2020.
As said previously no native English speaker woukd use this construction
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The English translation is so bad that I have had to write it down and copy it out to get it marked correct. Time for Duolingo to remove this one
I'm English by birth and have traced some English ancestors back to 1316 - the year, not the time!- the sentence may just be pass as English 'At this moment, he understands Italian soccer', implying a third person can see into the mind of the person watching soccer. The whole thing makes much better sense as 'At that moment, he understood Italian soccer', switching the the whole lot into the perfect tense. In my daytime job as a teacher (now retired) I would have spent a lot of time with the child or young person who had written the first sentence trying to make the meaning clear. The second sentence would have been acceptable.
Yes I agree. Or if it has to be in the present tense, "Now he understands .." or even "From this moment he understands .." might make more sense, perhaps?
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that there's an Italian word which specifically means, passing the ball around at the back and not even trying to go forward or go anywhere (because you want to keep the score as it is?) .. but I can't remember what the word is now (or even if I remembered this correctly). Do you know if there is such a word, or did I imagine this?
It also sounds unwieldy because of "IN this moment" instead of the normal "AT this moment." But it also feels wrong in English to use the continuous form in relation to just a single moment, as well as the obvious clumsiness of using the continuous with "to understand".
This is yet another incorrect use of the present continuous in a verb of state. English would not use the gerund. Can no one at Duolingo get this right?
I'm glad to hear it. He's doing better than me as I'm not really getting this module
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If I were making an idiomatic translation (which is what we're supposed to be doing for Duo), I would say: "Right now he understands Italian soccer."
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An awkward sentence, no native English speaker would ever say - but a true sentence to read the day the Azzurri lost the World Cup qualifier.
Purple prose! Italian football as philosophy! A moment both timeless and continuous. Bravo! The allusions to national character, to the deep mysteries and pleasures of football, to understanding as a process - a superb sentence !
The trouble is there is now no way of reporting this sort of unnatural use of language. We can discuss it, as this stream demonstrates, for years, but he clunking examples stay in the lesson.
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This translation is way too stilted 'at this moment he UNDERSTANDS Italian football ' or 'at this moment he IS BEGINNING to understand Italian football.'
I understand that we are learning to use gerunds here so some sentences will be a bit forced. My question is, is this sentence as nonsensical in Italian as it is in English? i.e would an Italian say this? Also, I am concerned that sentences like this might confuse non native English speakers and lead them to believe that this is reasonable English.
What a clunky, non English-sounding sentence! Better would be: "He is learning about Italian football" or "He is starting to understand Italian football".
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Whoa! What happened to the lady who was saying the sentences! My first sentence with a male voice. Maybe I'll learn later that it's not uncommon.
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Please could the Duolingo moderator do something about the awful translation of this sentence, So far there have been 105 comments surely this merits a drastic change in the translation and to remove the word soccer and replace it with the word football. After all we are using true English not American English,
There is no true English, only different dialects spoken in different regions. Duolingo usually uses US English in its main translations to English, but usually UK English is also accepted.
Soccer is a word that originated in, and is still used in, the UK to distinguish between "soccer" and the various other (and more interesting) forms of football. It is not exclusively "American English".
I have never heard a native speaker of British English use continuous aspect of verb to understand. When I taught English in Germany I would have marked it as wrong
What the hell is the gerund, how is it formed, when is it used, why are there no grammar notes for this lesson and why are all the exercises from Italian to English instead of the other way around?
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1) basically, any verb ending in "-ing" in English.
2) I'm not going to explain this in much detail, but you use a determiner with a T added (sta, sto, stanno, stiamo, etc.) followed by a verb ending "-ando" or "-endo". You'll pick it up fairly quickly.
3) no idea, but I tend not to read them anyway. Try accessing the site from a different device.
4) I would say that's just a random coincidence.
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One thing to add to what TheFinkie said. Although in English, the term gerund is generally applied to verbs ending in -ing only when they are used as nouns, not, for example, as verbs in the progressive (=continuous) tense. In Italian, however, I believe the term gerundio is applied to all verbs of the -ando / -endo form.
Although it is literally "At this moment.." surely "At the moment.." is more natural English. But not accepted.
As an English speaker I would say "currently" in this context, or even "at the moment"
But I'm imagining the context is that our hero has just witnessed something that suddenly makes clear what Italian football is all about. If that is the case, then "In this moment" seems better.
What a clumsy and unnatural sentence in English. "He understands" is what a native English speaker would say.
That's not what "lui sta capendo" means, but rather "he is figuring out", "he is getting to know".
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Hilarious - if you write the answer as an Italian who doesn't speak very good English might, they mark you correct. So "In this moment he is understanding the Italian football" is apparently perfectly fine! Fawlty Towers!
This is about learning Itslian, not English. Don't worry about how klunky it translates in English.
I tried translating it as "In this moment he is understanding Italian calcium" to see if it would be accepted, and it was not lol.
(I was pretty confusing at first watching TV ads about various bottled water brands bring "un fonte naturale di calcio").
"he is understanding Italian soccer" is cumbersome for any English speaker, as mentioned in previous comments. Better translations as "he is figuring out Italian soccer" were suggested years ago, but Duolingo has not fixed it yet.
In Britain, football and soccer are interchangeable words. British English shoud be accepted!
"In this moment" is grammatical in American English, though its meaning differs from "at this moment".
"At this moment" is used to remark on a something that could be asked about over a wide range of times, to stress that you are only remarking on the state at a specific time. For example: "At this moment, the item is out of stock" leaves open the possibility that it could come back into stock soon.
"In this moment" is a more literary construction, usually used for cognitive or emotional states. It describes states that manifest instantaneously and which dominate the subjective experience. For example, "in this moment, he was afraid" describes a sudden manifestation of fear, such that every other thought, fact, or feeling becomes irrelevant.
The usual standalone time expression is "at this moment". "in this moment" is usually used when there is a qualifier, e.g. "in this moment of sorrow, we must be strong".
Preposition usage is often arbitrary and must be learned by heart.
Not sure why in that moment is wrong - a native English speaker from England
Once again, Duolingo excludes British English. We talk about football rather than soccer. As for the sentence constuction... No-one would ever say this in English!
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I was just marked wrong for using 'football' rather than soccer (everything else was correct). In Britain we are just as likely to use the word football (if not more so) than soccer. I have reported, but am not hopeful!
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In Britain we would also be much more likely to say 'at the moment' rather than 'at this moment' - I tried the former in my second go at this sentence and was marked wrong again
In English we do not use is understanding in this gerund form we say understands
What a stupid clue, it's not idiomatic at all. I said 'At this moment he is understanding italian football' and it was marked wrong
is completely contradictoryThe bar is not high, but this is possibly just about the worst piece of English I have seen from DL. The use of the gerund suggests a continuation however short. The introductory phrase is completely contradictory suggesting an instantaneous revelation. Incidentally the game is football, not soccer, at least for English speakers who don't live in USA.
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why is duo so hard in understanding that calcio needs to be soccer. As if football is not the same?
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It still gets me every time: every now and then I come across this silly phrase in a practice, answer it weirdly and wonkily as I know they want and get marked correct. If I end up speaking like this in real life as a consequence I will be really worried!
"At this time he is understanding Italian soccer" ??? ... moment vs time?
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I think it makes sense. Something happens at a game or during a game whuch means the person understands the style of italian football
Io creo che "professional Italian soccer" é una risposta corretta. La puta que los parió
"soccer" in US English, "football" in UK English. Both are accepted. This has already been discussed many times in the previous comments. Please read them before posting.
Italian do not call it either "soccer" or "football", but rather "calcio". The two first words are used respectively in US and UK English.
soccer? football? arent they the same?? what a clumsy translation into English the accepted answer is i might add
Soccer was originally a British term used to distinguish Association Football (soccer) from Rugby Football (rugger). Both terms are obsolescent but "soccer" is still used. Rightly so, because soccer is just one of many forms of football.
I translated calcio as football not soccer and was marked wrong. What is the difference between soccer and football - other than the god damn Americans call it soccer
I just checked, and both football and soccer are in the system for all currently accepted translations for this sentence, so you likely had another problem in the sentence as well. Without the rest of your translation I couldn't tell you what it was, though.
barterelli: Soccer in the US is the sport most other countries refer to as football as you say. We god damn Americans call it soccer, because I believe that's what World Cup Matches are called as well. And if we called it football, well it'd confuse it with what else, football. World Cup matches take place in soccer if I'm not mistaken, not football. Football is what's played in the US and Canada, professionally as on most college campuses. It has very little relationship to soccer, except for those former soccer players who've made the transition to football where they've earned positions as punt specialists. Soccer's become increasingly popular in the states because it's essentially (in theory at least) a non-contact sport, at a time here when the fear of concussions in football is so much in the news; it's relatively inexpensive when it comes to equipment; it can be played by both boys and girls of all ages, and it's terrific aerobic exercise mainly because it encourages participants to run up and down a field for hours on end, back and forth, occasionally kicking a soccer ball -- or is it called where you are the football ball ? -- until finally one team scores a goal for a thrilling and dramatic 1-0 win.
'At this moment' is definitely not a phrase any native English speaker would use. It should be 'at the moment'
sbaynes...I don't agree. "At the moment" and "At this moment" mean two totally different things and would be used in different situations.
"On the moment" is not English. On the other hand, none of this sentence is proper English.
