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"Eu não toco naquele cachorro."

Translation:I do not touch that dog.

March 6, 2013

42 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/drewarnold72

Can't the original sentence also be stated as "Eu nao toco aquele cachorro."? I don't understand the need for "naquele" in this sentence since that seems to imply touching "in" that dog. Am I misunderstanding this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danmoller

That's the nature of the verb. Takes indirect object and needs preposition "em".

Same as with "gostar de", "precisar de", "lembrar de", "tocar em", "pensar em"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StudytheEnglish

Finalmente agora eu entendo. Obrigado.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/edwin.walker

And this is why I'm amazed all these prepositions are being taught so early in the course. It's kind of a grammatical overload.

Relevant anecdote: I gave a presentation on direct and indirect object pronouns in a French lesson at my university. We were all scientists but we'd been learning French for 7/8 years. The number of people who were still confused by the topic was amazing. And there are much fewer contractions in French than Portuguese. Crazy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eekro

Prepositions are tricky in every language. I am a native English speaker while my wife is Portuguese and speaks fluent English. The one thing she still mixes up to this day is the difference between "in" and "on", e.g. "should I put more salt on the soup?" So don't feel bad about pteposition problems!


[deactivated user]

    Seems like Duolingo's idea is immersion, get your ear familiar with the language. Probably why there is very little traditional instruction.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/drewarnold72

    Perfect. Thanks for the explanation.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CactusBrownies

    So "naquela" is actually "em aquela"?

    Is this true for all words with an extra n prefix?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/melesana

    If you're not going to accept "puppy", please don't offer it as a "hint."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmacheshire

    "cachorro" = "puppy" and "Cão" = "dog" in European Portuguese. In Brazil they seem to mean the same.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PHScanes

    In Brasil, they are synonyms... puppy is filhote ou cachorrinho / cãozinho


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cloudhorizon

    Did you use the report button? In case you didn't, you can select that specific problem. (As in, the hint doesn't match the word in the translation) I'm not sure the duo team always sees posted replies here, so its better to do that. :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paddyobrien

    I'm sure in one of the earlier lessons about verbs there was a sentence like "eu toco meu prato". But now toco has to have "em". What's going on there?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/djeidot

    Are you sure that was the sentence? It feels weird to me, it should be "eu toco em meu prato". (meaning: I touch my plate). You can use "tocar" without "em" but generally this means "play" rather than "touch". Ex: "eu toco (o) piano" - "I play (the) piano".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gaih

    There must have been more than one thread (as one already shown by Davu) on this sentence, or on tocar. I was in another one where Vivisaurus pointed out to me that it could mean I play my plate - or actually cymbals (she provided evidence plural or plates = cymbals). I unfortunately didn't keep that link (or any links!). If I am to translate from English " I touch my plate" I will definitely use "toco em". If I am to translate "eu toco meu pratos" I will say I play my cymbals.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Davu

    You must mean this discussion: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/124132.

    You'll see that in her answer to you vivisaurus mentions it is possible to omit the "em" in speech (I take that to mean informally). Other Brazilians seem to think it is simply optional, see wesleyjefferson's comment here:
    https://www.duolingo.com/comment/581008.

    The Houaiss dictionary gives a few example sentences

    • é proibido tocar (em) qualquer mercadoria
    • seus lábios tocaram (n)os dela
    • não chegou a tocar (n)o ponto essencial

    which also seem to imply "em" is optional when "tocar" means touch. I guess when your sentence is used in context it is unlikely that you'll confuse plates with cymbals.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/djeidot

    Great investigation Davu! You do have a point. "Seus lábios tocaram os dela" and "não chegou a tocar o ponto essencial" ar quite acceptable to me. "É proibido tocar qualquer mercadoria" still feels weird, probably because "mercadoria" (merchandize) is considered an object and the "play" meaning of the word "tocar" is expected in this case.

    Bottom line I think we can agree that the "em" is optional (but recommendable :P)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gaih

    Davu I'm prepared to believe you are real or I fail the Turing test for real. Well, people all know who to ask to get the needed resources! I also want to say djeidot is always precise with easy to follow logic. Thank you both!

    I agree unconditionally about Context Davu - there would be no effective or meaningful communication otherwise. Within it, we have the option to break the rules for some and yet get our point across exactly the way intended for the targeted audience; and may be able to hear what was really said under the apparent confusion. Thanks again.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Davu

    This is the discussion in question I think: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/1104914.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paddyobrien

    I guess they're interchangeable! Thanks


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/djeidot

    Thanks for that Davu. I guess it's a Brazilian Portuguese thing then, it still feels weird to me.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dlancey

    What's the difference between "aquele/a" and "esse/a"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/djeidot

    There is a big post about it somewhere on the discussions, maybe someone else can post the link here?... the short version is that, if I am talking to you, I will refer as "esse/essa" to something or someone near you, and I will refer as "aquele/aquela" to something or someone that is far away from both of us.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SariahLily

    I believe you are referring to this one: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/536217 :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ManuelLopez642

    Is "i dont touch the dog" not acceptable


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlennaSol

    'The dog/o cachorro' is a certain dog. 'Aquele cachorro/that dog (over there)' is much more specific. DuoLingo wants you to learn the specific meanings of all the articles. It would be clearer if we had a context instead of an isolated sentence. "Eu nao gosto daquele cachorro preto. Nao toco naquele (o cachorro preto) . Mas este cachorro marrom e bom. Eu toco neste."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnSchwabacher

    Why wouldn't "I don't play with that dog" be correct?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Evil127

    Agreed, they propose 'play' as a translation of 'toco'...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fqsama

    Tocar as "play" refers to sound, as in "eu toco o piano" (I play the piano)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Evil127

    Thanks :), so to say "I don't play with that dog" it would be "Eu não jogo com aquele cachorro" ?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/djeidot

    It would be more "eu não brinco com aquele cachorro". Play has (at least!) three different meanings in Portuguese:

    Play a music instrument - Tocar
    Play a game or sport - Jogar
    Play, simply, like in a playground - Brincar


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/moidekar

    That's very helpful! Obrigado!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/supercalidocious

    Could this sentence translate to 'I don't <pet> that dog' ??


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeaPoup

    But it could still mean you're not playing (an instrument) with that dog, which makes sense since dogs can't play instruments, right?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexBurgess127

    nope it would mean you're not playing the dog, AS an instrument, lol.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chumptroop

    Can someone explain the difference between naquele and desse, and when to use them?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmacheshire

    naquele = em+aquele nesse = em+esse desse=de+esse

    In English, both "esse" and "aquele" would be translated as "that". The difference is that "aquele" is used for thing that are distant from both the speaker and the listener, something like the old-fashioned word "yonder".

    In practise, the distinction between este (=this) and esse (=that) is not very clear and if you use the wrong one in speech I doubt if anyone would notice.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

    Please use " " two spaces at the end of the line.
    DuoLingo has no auto new line feed without two blanks.

    This would made your listing of the 3 words much more readable. Thanks.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hagtar

    I'm confused. Is it "I refuse to touch that dog", "I am not touching the dog right now" or "I never touch that dog"? It's a strange sentence.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Davu

    The best translation is the one given I believe. The interpretation is likely to be context dependent, but "I am not in the habit of touching that dog" would be a good candidate.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mary864770

    i prefer i did not touch that dog


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Davu

    That translates "Eu não toquei/tocava naquele cachorro" rather than the sentence given.

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