"Я у Києві, як сир у маслі."

Translation:I am in Kyiv like cheese in butter.

7/20/2017, 7:31:35 AM

16 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/A.Igor
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It's a very strange translation as there is no such idiom in English. Also in this idiom both in Russian and Ukrainian 'масло' is butter and not oil because in the old days, to make the cheese not stale, the cheese head was put in a cask with butter. Then it was closed and rolled from side to side. The cheese inside was rolling in butter and was absorbing it. That kept the humud in the cheese had for longer time and kept it fresh. And since both of these products were expensive, it was believed that those who have cheese, and who keeps it in butter, live like rich people and it's close to English 'to live like a lord'. So I would translate it like 'I am in Kyiv, I live like a lord'

7/20/2017, 7:31:35 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/TobyBartels
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For the English idiom, I'm more familiar with ‘live like a king’. More specifically, saying ‘In Kiev, I live like a king.’ suggests that the money that you've saved up from a relatively ordinary job in your native country goes so far in Kiev that you can afford a life of luxury there.

8/21/2017, 8:15:38 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/sagitta145
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OK, I added

  • Ведмідь у лісі - як сир у маслі :: A bear in a forest lives like a king.
  • Я у Києві, як сир у маслі :: In Kyiv, I live like a king.
  • Він живе як сир у маслі :: He lives like a king.

These will not be given in the exercises to translate Eng -> Ukr, but will be accepted. Maybe the next step would be to use the idiomatic translation for the exercises rather than the literal one...

8/21/2017, 9:17:08 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/TobyBartels
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Nice! Are you also accepting ‘Kiev’ as the traditional English spelling of Київ? [ETA: I guess that that English spelling is really a transliteration from Russian, which is a good reason to prefer ‘Kyiv’ instead, but it might still be accepted.]

I should probably also note that ‘can live like a king’ is pretty common in English too, so you might get people asking to add versions with that.

8/21/2017, 10:34:01 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/sagitta145
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I think the general idea on Duo and in the whole country is to use "Kyiv" as the transliteration from Ukrainian... Even though it's been widely used before. I guess we want to move on :)

8/21/2017, 12:35:42 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3
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I have no issue with Ukraine and Ukrainians' preferring that their capital be known by something based on the Ukrainian pronunciation. Hardly the first major world city to attempt to effect such a change in recent decades, and now we duly have Beijing and Chennai. Only problem was that trying to introduce a new English word with a new sound value, one must have regard for the rules of English phonetic representation, not only the rules of a mechanical transliteration system meant for those actually familiar with Ukrainian. "Kyiv," of course, is a one-syllable word to the English-speaking mind, beginning with the uncommon but pronounceable consonant cluster /kj/. Oh wells.

To at least get a hint of what I assume they intended to have us be pronouncing, maybe something like Kehyiv, Kaeyiv, Kaejiv, or Kaeyiv would at least give us a hint. Aesthetically, I prefer the first ("ae" is jarring to the eye), but opinions could easily differ on using "eh" to represent a vowel sound not, um, usually represented that way as part of a word :) Or maybe Kayiv if you're willing to sacrifice the /j/ (the "y sound" to English speakers) in the middle.

12/17/2017, 7:28:16 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/A.Igor
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Actually for me it is an interesting question how it's more natural for English speakers. If they hear pronounciation how do they write it by themselves. In my opinion it's not correct to change other languages. Moscow and Saint-Petersburg also quite different from Russian names Москва and Санкт-Петербург. And in Finnish Saint-Petersburg is even called Pietari. Toby, how would you write it in terms how you hear it?

8/22/2017, 6:37:30 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/A.Igor
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Yes, it makes sense. I think your translation is better

8/21/2017, 8:57:55 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/sagitta145
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I totally agree.

1) Should at least be "масло" if it's a literal translation: масло doesn't mean "oil" in Ukrainian, and from the physics of cheese, like you described, it's butter :) In other sentences with this idiom butter is present, so I'll add it here as well. Thanks!

2) The non-literal translation should be agreed upon and added

8/16/2017, 12:08:01 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/sagitta145
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I really like your suggestion with the living like a lord. And I agree that some idiomatic translation would be nice. For now we have:

  • Ведмідь у лісі - як сир у маслі
  • Я у Києві, як сир у маслі
  • Він живе як сир у маслі

I would rather use rolling in dough than living like a lord. But it's still not so clear how to add it to the sentences...

A bear in a forest is rolling in dough. I am rolling in dough in Kyiv? (changes the order a bit). He lives rolling in dough?

Help? :D

8/16/2017, 12:14:48 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/A.Igor
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I don't think we have something like "Ведмідь у лісі - як сир у маслі" in Russian nor I think it's a good idea to ude exactly this phrase without explanation. In Slavic languages we have different relation to bears. In English I know just couple phrases about bears but they are pretty sarcastic or something associated with rudness, brutality and difficulties . But two others are fine to be translated with "rolling in dough" I believe

8/16/2017, 12:57:39 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/sagitta145
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Yes, this phrase doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. Looks as if the meaning of the cheese-in-butter is feeling natural and at ease (like a bear in a forest) while it means having rich and gorgeous life... I don't think I have the power to remove sentences from the course now, but I would totally remove it x)

8/16/2017, 1:10:22 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Timothy558007

"Like a pig in clover"?

2/3/2018, 8:22:23 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/sagitta145
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Awesome, didn't know this expressions before!

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/like+pigs+in+clover

Thanks, I think we should add this :)

2/5/2018, 10:00:23 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/Timothy558007

"Like a pig in clover"?

2/9/2018, 11:25:15 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/Timothy558007

Sorry, didn't see that the post went through.

2/9/2018, 11:26:36 AM
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