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"Despite herself, she loves this boy."

Translation:Malgré elle, elle aime ce garçon.

August 8, 2017

32 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zjeraar

I wrote "Malgré elle-même, elle aime ce garçon". Why isn't this correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmineHadji1

Because herself does not always mean elle-même. It means elle-même only in the expressions She does it herself = Elle le fait elle-même (for instance She reads the book herself = Elle lit elle-même le livre).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Neil-VA5WX

I also used elle-même. That is what I understood herself to translate as. My Larousse and a google search say that it's an emphatic reflexive pronoun used where it is not grammatically required. Hmm. I still think Zjeraar and I aren't wrong. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

I think it's just idiomatic not to include "même" with malgré for this function. Examples:


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HertaSchneider

But then it could mean despite another girl...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daniel589120

I looked up malgré before answering this to understand how it is used. It seems that to say "despite herself/itself" one says "malgré elle" one never says "malgré elle-même", if you want to use the reflexive disjunctive pronoun then one can say "en dépit de elle-même", "en dépit de" only takes the reflexive form. This seems to be a matter of usage.

A nice website that describes this is; https://french.kwiziq.com/revision/grammar/expressing-despite-in-spite-of-noun-with-malgre-en-depit-de-nom.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

Thanks for this.

(Note the elision: "en dépit d'elle-même".) ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dqJacO

And "malgré soi" is not possible here? It's marked wrong...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GU7P

https://en.bab.la/dictionary/french-english/malgré-soi

Does this help? "soi" is impersonal : "one" in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatthewEpp5

No one replied to this one . . . I would expect that "malgré soi" could be correct. Can someone please explain?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OakDoc1

I said, "malgré elle-même, elle aime ce garçon" which was considered incorrect. However, I think that "malgré soi" ought to be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJTitmus

Malgre soi = despite oneself.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nrDHqU

I, too am a bit confused by the elle-meme (sorry, no accents). It's available on the hover as well so...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HigorCarvalho

I am not being able to understand the semantics of this sentence, neither in English nor in French. Could anyone come up with a context in which it would make sense to me, please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenHueb

The girl could be in a bad relationship that she wants to get out of. Or she could be in love with a boy she is forbidden to see (like Romeo & Juliet). Or she might be incompatible with the boy, but nevertheless, feels drawn to him.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JetpackBrian

She's trying not to love him. Despite her best efforts, she loves him.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuperDescartes

No matter how much the girl tells her self she doesn't care for the guy. she deep down feels love for him.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cogges

I don't understand how you can tell that "malgré elle" is "despite herself" and not "despite her", i.e. some random woman objecting to the relationship.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sharpyshow

Why is "elle-même" not correct in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RumenBaksanov

Can "Malgré elle" means despite another woman (Despite her)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanMeaneyPL

I fell into the elle-meme trap, but I get it now, having read the comments here. Unless it is reflexive, it can't be elle-meme, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HigorCarvalho

That's not correct. For example, I can say: "Je veux lire ce livre moi-même" ou "Je lis moi-même ce livre" and neither of these sentences have reflexives.


[deactivated user]

    Can any native speakers say whether this sentence is idiomatic French?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Crejb

    Why is "...elle aime ÇA garçon." incorrect?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

    "Ça" can only be a pronoun, not a determiner. That is, it stands on its own, rather than modifying a noun like "garçon".

    "Ce", on the other hand, is a common determiner, and is typically only used as a pronoun with "être" (e.g. "c'est", "ce sont")


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Summerstor5

    this = c' ce cet cette that = cela = ça = c' = ce

    So, ce can be ça, but ça cannot be ce.

    there are some odd rules


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheSpringSoldier

    I thought in French there couldn't be a vowel at the end of a word next to a vowel at the beginning of the next word?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

    Only in certain circumstances. There's a good list here of the words that are subject to elision:


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MonaBenjamin

    I find the use of 'aime' slightly confusing on DL. I understand that it can mean both to like and to love depending on context, but I have had answers marked incorrect in other modules for not using 'aime beaucoup' to mean 'love', having used 'aime' on its own. But here I was marked incorrect for using 'aime beaucoup'.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/roOodie
    • When a person "loves" another person, aimer means love and aimer bien means like another person.
    • When a person "likes" a thing, aimer means like and adorer means love a thing.

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

    And "aimer beaucoup" is never "love". It's always "like very much" or "like a lot".

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