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"I wear an orange coat in the spring and fall."

Translation:春と秋はオレンジ色のコートを着ます。

August 11, 2017

58 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HumanSashimi

Commentator R0dluvan mentioned a little bit about it but here's more on the colors and の.

So you have six colors in Japanese that can be treated as い形容詞 (i-adjectives), because they end with い。These are: 「赤い」「青い」「白い」「黒い」「黄色い」「茶色い」. And when you put an i-adjective in front of a noun you do not need to use の。For example: 赤いコートを着ます。

However, all the other colors are considerd nouns (or sometimes in dictionaries described as no-adjectives, to highlight their descriptive nature (probaby)). Since they are nouns they need to be treated as such and therefore you need to use the の particle.

There's a twist though, you can make the six "special" colors into nouns by simply removing the い。Example: 赤のコート (is basically the same as 赤いコート).

Also, you don't always have to add 色(いろ) to the noun colors. It can be omitted and depends on the context. Since オレンジ, just like in English, is also the name of the fruit it can become troublesome if one does not know the context. For example オレンジの花 could very well mean the flower that grows on the orange tree instead of an orange flower. オレンジ色の花 would make that distiction clear. But a lot of times in Japanese, very much so in spoken Japanese, you can leave out stuff that is already understood through context. So if you're talking with someone about the color of flowers, just saying オレンジの花 would most likely suffice, and they would not think of the flowers from the orange tree.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/R0dluvan

Saying 赤のコート instead of 赤いコート is sort of like how you can say "A coat of red" instead of "a red coat". ("A coat of red, a coat of gold, a lion still has claws..."). In English the former is more poetic though, don't know if there's any such distinction in Japanese?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kana332264

赤色 places emphasis on the color and makes the color specific.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Panik_Attakkk

ありがとうございます


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kana332264

Perfectly well said. This is the first time i see a highly useful discussion post with nothing to add or remove.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joe264823

It would make it easier to remember if we know why midori is not an I adjective.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kavyle

The i-adjs by themselves are "aka", "ao", "shiro", "kuro", "ki", and "cha"; and the no-adjs are "midori", "murasaki", "hai" (or gure--), "oranju", and "pinku".

So I think the best way is to remember that if the noun version is a loan word or it ends in an "i" sound, it's a no-adj, with the exception of "ki" (yellow), which is still an i-adj.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TyrantRC

The way I remember it is that all five primary color in japanese are usually used as i-adjectives (黄色い、赤い、青い、黒い、白い) and the rest are usually used as a noun.

I didn't know 茶色い was used as an i-adjective, I don't think is that common though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BMGX4H

オレンジコート is accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/3ruch1n

So Duo wears no clothes on winter and summer and only a coat on spring and fall?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kana332264

Whoever downvoted this doesn't have any understanding of japanese language. は particle here means you explicitly do something in spring and fall, に would mean you do something in spring and fall, but it's not really closed you don't do it otherwise.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EliBrody

Where did that の come from?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sora_Japan

'an orange coat' is 'オレンジいろのコート'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Switch_Z

Is it really necessary?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/R0dluvan

Yes, orange is not an adjective in Japanese, it's a noun. Many colors work like that. The only ones that don't need "no" are the ones that end in "i" like "kuroi", "akai", "aoi" and are proper adjectives.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kana332264

Technically right, technically wrong. オランジ is also a の adjective. However, there is a sense of ambiguity until 色 is added.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duo_Werner

Thank you - this helps a lot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BMGX4H

I wrote オレンジコート and it was accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Haru_u

Whats the difference between "きます" and "はきます"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_jclipse

I believe きます is used for clothes worn on the torso and はきますis for clothes worn on the legs and below.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kana332264

You are correct. There's a few others, but don't worry about them yet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rael763700

The "answer" it wants seems to keep changing. I had it written in kanji, but accidentally typed the last verb wrong and it showed me that. Then I typed it all in kanji the next time, without mis-typing, and then it said that was wrong and told me to write it in hirigana. It might be useful to have an option to see all possible answers


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nola_S

why is "春と秋、オレンジ色のコートーを着ます" marked as wrong ? I though that for dates and temporal things like today, next month and so, we can do that ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NickMarsto1

If you use the topic marker は after the seasons the phrase translates as "Spring and autumn will come in Orange colour coats" . Poetic though that may be, If you are more concerned to convey what you will wear in either your spring or autumn wardrobe, the particle で or even に would be more useful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kana332264

Nnot quite, while you're correct that は is a topic marker, the difference is that は implies that you ONLY wear them in the spring and fall, while に would imply you especially wear them in the spring and fall.

This is the folly of trying to attribute exact translations to japanese particles.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZaneLarkin1

I think you misinterpreted 着ます for 来ます. They're both pronounced きます, but the latter means 'come' while it's the former that means 'wear'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Morgan392010

So for some reason 「秋と春はオレンジ色のコートを着ます」is not accepted. Whilst I grant you it means "I wear an orange coat in the fall and spring" the meaning is the same. I feel it's unfair to say it's incorrect when in reality "spring and fall" and "fall and spring" are really interchangeable for the meaning of the overall sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/satwita

No, Duo wants to make sure that you know that 秋 means fall and 春 means spring. For example, I seem to resist learning which is the male and which the female grandparent when 祖父 (そふ) and 祖母 (そぼ) are written in hiragana. So while "Grandma and Grandpa are sleeping" are functionally equivalent to "Grandpa and Grandma are sleeping" Duo has no way of verifying if you know which is the male and which is the female grandparent unless you translate it in the same order as it's given.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Morgan392010

Duo does have a way to verify you know which is which. It asks you a question using only one of those two words. It can, and does give questions like “Translate “祖父の携帯は古い"” or something of that nature and then later will give “祖母の日本料理は本当にすごい。 In sentences like those it can catch you on the meaning of those words. In sentences like this topic, it’s just being pedantic in my opinion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/satwita

Thought you might come back with that, Morgan. I still think that for most of us it's better to have the correct usage verified in every situation. But, leaving that aside, from a programming standpoint, it may not be feasible to have Duo accept all the semantically correct sentences. The Swedish mods (who are excellent) said (in response to a similar complaint) that they would have to hand enter all the variations. So, for example, if Grandma and Grandpa bought a red and yellow car, they'd have to enter four acceptable sentences: Gma and Gpa bought a red and yellow... bought a yellow and red, Gpa and Gma bought a red and yellow ... bought a yellow and red. In one case the Swedish mods ended up entering 36 variations because so many people wanted their particular quibble accounted for. The mods are volunteers. Is that fair to expect that of them? And while I don't imagine that Duo's programmers are volunteers, Duolingo is run on donations, which probably means that they don't have the funds to change their programs because we, the users, don't want to be more careful in our translations. Pedantic? Maybe, but I doubt it. I think it's more a case of allocating scarce resources to ensure that the program teaches something correctly than to making sure that it's able to account for cases where nouns can be switched without changing meaning from cases where they can't be (if that's even possible across a multi-language platform).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Morgan392010

I’d be inclined to accept that if I didn’t have only 5 mistakes available on the mobile version. Precision is great and all, but when I’ve only got 5 chances things like this become an absolute massive annoyance. Especially when it’s not something I struggle with.

I read the sentence, it asked for a translation and I gave a translation which perfectly conveyed the exact meaning but still lost a heart because of it. It’s just plain frustrating.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/satwita

I only use the desktop version, and there hearts were discarded quite some time ago. I can see how frustrating your situation would be though!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kana332264

Small problem, both 秋 and 時 mean "fall/autumn". Duolingo doesn't accept 秋 even if it's listed in hints, haven't tried 時 yet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kavyle

Seems to accept 秋 now! Maybe it was a bug?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/darcymiller02

I wrote "春とあきはオレンジ色のコートをはきます". How is this not accepted? did I do something wrong?

Duo's lack of fluidity is starting to really piss me off, I'm thinking of ditching it completely and just using the Genki textbooks and Memrise. :p


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TyrantRC

着ます【きます】 for things on your upper-body from the shoulders down

履きます【はきます】for things on your lower-body (i.e. pants, skirt, etc.)

Unless you are wearing your coat in your legs, I would say きます is more appropriate here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/darcymiller02

oh ok, thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Morgan587330

はきます is not the correct verb - it should be きます.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RosalieWes

why do we have to have American English all the time. Fall is AUTUMN to a lot of us English speakers!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E.Kupfer

Perhaps the volunteers who work on this module are all Yanks? I'm a Yank, btw.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris316919

Hey what's wrong? I wrote the totally correct sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TyrantRC

「春と秋はオレンジ色のコートを着ます」

【はると・あきは・オレンジ -いろの・コートを・きます】

着る【きる】


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kannagi2

Reading the comments, I actually pretty nice. you see all these good pieces of advice.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joia_Murnenshar

I used に instead of は and it was correct. Why are both correct? What does it change in the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrandenStr5

Does it have to have a certain order? Why can't it be 秋と春


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BMGX4H

オレンジコート was accepted, without 色 or の.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hide328785

Why is the topic the seasons and not what I wear?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ivanwiyanto

Can I say オレンジいろのコートをはるとあきはきます?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BMGX4H

No, that looks like "the orange coat wears spring and fall"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skwez

no but I think thay you could say オレンジいろのコートがはるとあきにきます


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/R0dluvan

No, that's wrong. You can't use "ga" here because the coat isn't doing the wearing. You need to use "ha" or "wo".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MonkeyAce9

They should call these questions Kanji only.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Isi3c1Up

私は春と秋にオレンジ色のコートを着ます。is more accurate. The translation makes it seem like はる and あき wear orange coats.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TyrantRC

the topic is not always you, when you are talking about relative times or in this case "seasons", those periods of time are the topic because there is no other reason why would you mention them. You can play with particles but if you say "in spring and fall", that's what you are talking about (the topic). It's just a bit confusing because most people relate the word "in" with location in english.

Also you usually will see relative times as "next week", "tomorrow", "in winter" marked with は, and specific ones like "at seven o'clock", in "July 4th" marked with に. That doesn't mean you cannot play with particles, is just what people are used to. For example「春と秋にはオレンジ色のコートを着ます」is perfectly fine


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SpencerBry9

can you omit the は after the 春と夏 compound topic like you would if the topic was 今日?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SiCollier

This english sentence doesn't make sense... is it trying to say "I wear an orange coat in spring, and I fall over"???? That's bizarre...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UnexpectedShroom

Fall is the what they call Autumn in the US

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