1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Ukrainian
  4. >
  5. "Does this tram go to the par…

"Does this tram go to the park?"

Translation:Цей трамвай їде у парк?

August 11, 2017

13 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jmYi6

"Їхати у" means either to drive into something or to be inside something that is driving you. When you go TO a location, the correct preposition is ДО. The use of У in this case is a russism.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sagitta145

I think both should be accepted since both are commonly used, to indicate the tram going to a location, no matter what the "official" rules say (my descriptivist position). People use both "у парк" and not "до парку" and in the context it's very clear that the tram is going to the park and not into the park.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lingvist444285

"commonly used" & "no matter what the "official" rules say" mean that this is "суржик" - mix of ukrainian and russian

people use "суржик", but it is not correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sagitta145

How does this have anything to do with Russian? 1) "У парк" and "до парку" are both correct Ukrainian cases 2) In Russian one can say "в парк" and "к парку", which would give the sentence a slightly different meaning (same as in Ukrainian), but would still be correct.

In what way then is this суржик?


[deactivated user]

    Not really. До is only preferred for cities and villages, and even for that «у» is possible:

    Узагалі, коли мовиться про рух у напрямі міста, села, селища, тоді треба ставити прийменник до: "Через кілька днів Ковпак вилетів до Москви" (П. Вершигора); коли йдеться про дію чи перебування в чомусь, тоді слід користуватися прийменником у (в): "У Києві на риночку ой пив чумак горілочку" (народна пісня). Якщо мета руху в певному напрямі супроводжується ще додатковими поясненнями, тоді після них може стояти замість прийменника до – у (в): "Ми їздили на ярмарок у Косів" (М. Рильський). У реченнях, де рух або дію скеровано до предметів, середовищ або мовиться про абстрактні поняття, ставиться прийменник у (в):"Він ступив у сад" (Є. Гуцало) ; "Кидається у свою стихію" (О. Гончар); "Закрадається в серце острах" (М. Рильський). Рух до приміщення позначається дієсловами з тим і з другим прийменником: "Уваливсь у хату" (П. Куліш); "Смерть зайшла до хати" (Д. Павличко). («Як ми говоримо» Бориса Антоненка-Давидовича, bold added by me)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jmYi6

    Actually, you confirmed what I stated. У is used in the sense of "into" or "in" and ДО is used in the sense of movement towards a destination. Thank you.


    [deactivated user]

      I think you haven’t understood the rule I’ve quoted. Here’s the relevant part:

      У реченнях, де рух або дію скеровано до предметів, середовищ або мовиться про абстрактні поняття, ставиться прийменник у (в)

      ‘In sentences, where the movement or action is directed towards the objects, environments, or when the abstract notions are mentioned, the preposition у (в) is used.’

      The example «Він ступив у сад» ‘He entered the garden’ is also quite relevant. Because ‘park’ is much more similar to ‘garden’ (it falls under the category of ‘objects or environments’) than to ‘city or village’.

      «До» is preferred only when talking about cities, villages and settlements (у напрямі міста, села, селища).

      N.B. The above is only true about the standard Ukrainian, which is defined by the rules. In the day-to-day usage, до and в/у [+Accusative form of the noun] are pretty much interchangeable.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Enzfj2
      • 1701

      When парк is used as depot, not garden - then 'у парк' - but I don't think that English 'park' here has this meaning.
      From other hand, I can hardly imagine a tram inside a (garden) park, and the title question is 'to the park', not into, then it must be до парку


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jmYi6

      Exactly the point I was making. Going "into" something is different from going "to" something. "To" implies a destination so "У" should properly not be used for cities.


      [deactivated user]

        Hm, makes sense, thanks for the clarification

        I was thinking about a tram stop situated inside an actual park ^^'


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PerunBolt

        At home, we've never used 'У парку'... Му parents always taught us to say "Цей трамвай/автобус іде ДО парку." Using the 'y' was considered 'improper'. This must either be a 'newer' Ukrainian or it's 'generational'.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sagitta145

        (you mean "у парк")

        Yeah, or can be just regional. E.g. "на столі" VS "на столові"

        Learn Ukrainian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.