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"These are the authors whose books I have read."

Translation:Das sind die Autoren, deren Bücher ich gelesen habe.

August 20, 2017

25 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ronkisimo

Anyone know the different words used for Whose? like deren is used here. Thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Copernicus-

It's the genitive form of the relative pronoun; here's the conjugation. Since "Autoren" is plural, we use the plural form "deren."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doctor-John

Here is the table of relative pronouns that Copernicus above links to. I place it here, because the complete table is currently not in the light-bulb Notes for this lesson. (I hope it gets added.) The alignment will be off, because the text below isn't a "real table."

..............................MASC.....FEM......NEUT........PL

Nominative......der...........die..........das...........die

Accusative........den..........die..........das...........die

Dative.................dem.........der.........dem.........denen

Genitive.............dessen....deren....dessen....deren


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JAusserehl

I wondered why dessen wasn't accepted. Thank you for clarifying this cos I had no idea the difference between dessen and deren.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheDuoWizard

Could anyone explain the weird word order?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MortiBiRD

Main clause: Das sind die Autoren. This could stand alone. ,deren Bücher ich gelesen habe. is a subordinate clause and is an attribute and explanation of Autoren. Wordorder is completly normal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DTSFF
  • 1336

(I couldn’t answer directly to Mizinamo because there are too many nested answers.) I have seen an exception where the conjugated verb does not come last in a subordinate clause : when there is a double infinitive with the perfect tense in a subordinate clause, the conjugated verb is placed before the infinitives ; for example Wir sind nach Hause gegangen, weil wir keine Karten haben kaufen können. See here. So, I think that this also applies to a relative clause, doesn’t it ? Like Der Mann, der keine Karte hat kaufen können, ist nach Hause gegangen. ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Yes, I think so.

Though I think many native speakers would try to avoid such "heavy" grammar :)

That's also an example of the use of the Ersatzinfinitiv: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ersatzinfinitiv


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DTSFF
  • 1336

Yes, I can imagine that it sounds heavy :) Thanks for the link !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mr_Eyl

Weird how? What do you need help with understanding?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheDuoWizard

Sorry for not clarifying. I meant the weird word order with "ich gelesen habe"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheDuoWizard

Oh thanks for that!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wibbleypants

And the auxillary after the pp?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

The conjugated verb always comes last in a subordinate clause -- even after any infinitive(s) or past participle(s) that may be present.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Andrei_Victor_

What about 'diese sind die Autoren...'? It was marked wrong. Can anybody let me know why? Cheers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Rule of thumb: use das ist/das sind/dies ist/dies sind... when introducing something or “pointing” to a new topic verbally. We use the neuter singular for this in German.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MyDarlin1

'Das sind' or 'Dies sind'? is there a difference, right or wrong or preferred? tia


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Das sind could be "these are" or "those are".

Dies sind can generally only be "these are" (i.e. for something close).

das is probably more common than dies.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duolessio

Is "diese sind" wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Sort of.

It's not grammatically wrong but means something slightly different -- it would be more like "These ones are the authors..." or "These authors are the authors ..." rather than "These are the authors...".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexG818416

Oh, come on. With no umlaut on the standard English keyboard Buecher should be fine, as it is outside the exam context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Copernicus-

Duo always accepts "ue" for "ü," so that couldn't have been the problem. It may have shown "ü" in the correct answer it showed you, but there must have been another correction too. What was your entire answer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/coindoeil

I find it very frustrating to get the entire phrase counted wrong, when I only misspelled "Autorin" instead of Autoren, but I correctly used deren as the relative pronoun AND got the word order correct. I am a language teacher, and I would not mark the entire answer incorrect because of one tiny misspelling. The grammar concept being practiced was done correctly. It is just very frustrating when that happens to me on Duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Copernicus-

Typically, Duo does forgive small mistakes. The reason yours was rejected was because "Autorin" happens to be another actual word (feminine form of "Autor," i.e. a female author). So Duo can't really be sure that what you wrote really was just a typo; to Duo, it simply looks like you thought that was the correct word.

But if you make a similar typo that doesn't make another actual word (e.g., "Autoran"), Duo will typically accept it.

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