https://www.duolingo.com/DreamingOdelia

Study Group for the Reverse French Tree.

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I would like to know how other people are learning the Reverse French Tree. I am having problems because I do not see any Tips and Notes. I have been doing the following two things. 1) I look for a similar skill on the French Tree and read the Tips and Notes there. 2) I skip each question, write down the answer and copy the answer when the question comes up again. I have questions about certain problems. First, I would like to understand how other people are learning this tree.

September 2, 2017

35 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/JeanneGamache

The same way we learn the others; trial and error. A time honored tradition! I am a retired English teacher who will answer any questions. Also speak French (almost) and Mandarin. Bonne chance!

September 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DreamingOdelia
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Thanks for the interesting approach :^) I can hardly wait to perfect it with you as time goes on... Jane, I will eventually come to you for help. I need to get my notes together. Jane, let me introduce you To ML. I hope the three of us will become great friends :)

September 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Multi0Lingual4
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Hey, E! Haven't seen you around in a while! I just did a quick Google search and came up with this resource that looks pretty promising:

http://www.languageguide.org/french/grammar/.

Whenever I have a specific question, I just Google it or read the Sentence discussions. Those are usually very helpful (although on the English for French speakers tree, as it's hard reading from people fluent in French. Anyway.)

Any particulars you are concerned about?

Edited, as I mixed up the reverse tree and the regular tree. My apologies. Thanks, Sitesurf!

September 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DreamingOdelia
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https://www.duolingo.com/comment/5658740$from_email=commentcomment_id=24276748 Hey, ML! How have you been? I found Anne in the link I just gave to you! I was so excited!! She is working on the same tree as me. Perhaps the 3 of us could have a tree celebration together happy dance I know you can do a tree in a week or two. Have you opened a wild life sanctuary for all of your rescued owls? I will have to get moving. Anne is no slouch either. Hopefully school can keep her busy. I know that I am always the one who holds up the celebrations.

I have starred questions in my notebooks. (I am still writing everything down :) I will give them to you tomorrow. I am going back to work. Oh, I almost forgot to tell you. I will submit some clues for guess the Duolingoer tonight. I love being able to do links now. RR helped me. She was a persistent coach. Kinda like a dog with a bone chuckle Later ML :^) https://www.duolingo.com/comment/22047260$from_email=comment

September 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Multi0Lingual4
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You know, I've been trying to tackle the reverse English for Spanish tree, but it's not going as well as I thought. I will certainly not be able to finish in a week, I'm WAY too busy. Thanks, though. I feel bad for asking, but who is RR, again? I am not familiar with all your nicknames and friends.

I saw the second link. So Shane died? That's a tragedy. Prayers for everyone. I'm not good for offering comfort, so I won't bother.

I am not quite sure what the confusion of the first link is. All I know is that Anne's error is caused by Duo's new partnership with Pearson, and some of the Pearson content is leaking into the course, and it's causing huge issues. Ridiculous, Duo needs to fix it now. The course volunteers don't like having their free content go to a mega corporation that's only focused on profit.

September 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DreamingOdelia
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https://www.duolingo.com/rrkeagle I call her RR. I didn't realize that she had Level 25 in Russian! Believe me ML, I am no where close to finishing this tree. Presently I am doing Present Perfect. This is about half way through the tree. I have been doing each skill at least twice. My typing skills are improving faster than my French. I'll write my puzzlers tomorrow :^)

September 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Lento_Rodriguez
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Hello ML!

September 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Multi0Lingual4
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Hi, Lento! How have you been?

September 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Lento_Rodriguez
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I have been wonderful, a little busy though. I hope you've had a great summer.

September 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Multi0Lingual4
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I have indeed! Thank you. You too.

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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"...on the French for English speakers tree, as it's hard reading from people fluent in French."

Can you please elaborate this?

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Multi0Lingual4
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Yikes! I meant the English for French speakers tree. Sorry! Also, will you please elaborate a bit more on DreamingOdelia's question of "Je suis ici pour vous sauver?" Does it mean "I am here to save you" or "You are here to save me?" Thank you!

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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"Je suis ici pour vous sauver".

  • object pronouns are placed before the verb they depend on, therefore "vous" is the direct object of "sauver".

"You are here to save me" = Tu es/vous ĂȘtes ici pour me sauver.

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DreamingOdelia
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Here are some questions from the Infinitive Verbs. Il sait nager. How does this translate to: "He knows how to swim"? Je veux m'arreter ici. Why is there an m' in front of arreter? I want me to stay here? Il est ici pour y rester. "He is to stay here." What are pour and y for? Je ne me sens pas bien. I do not feel well. What is the me for? Je ne me souviens pas. "I do not remember" What is the me for? Il prend sa retraite. "He is retiring" What is the sa for? Why does Septembre est passe translate as September has passed? Je n'ai jamais eu de petite amie. What is the de for? Nous n'avons jamais eu de chats. Why de and not des? Je suis ici pour vous sauver. Does this mean that someone is going to save me? I am here for you to save?

These are questions from less than two skills. Needless to say, I would truly benefit from some Tips and Notes in the French Reverse tree. This has been a most frustrating endeavor for me.

September 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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You are probably aware that there is a big overlap between the two trees (FR-EN EN-FR).

Most if not all the questions you asked ML have probably been discussed several times on the FR-EN tree sentence discussion forums. Did you ask your questions there?

TipsNotes on English grammar do not appear on the reverse course because we have never found the time to write them (the same team is in charge of both courses).

On the EN-FR tree, you will have to write your questions in French and you'll get, at best, French answers, but be aware that the number of bilingual users to the EN-FR course is extremely small. However, going on the French speaking forums is a very interesting experience and an excellent opportunity to use your French and learn new vocab.

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DreamingOdelia
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Thank you for your response. I now realize how to benefit most from all of the hard work that you and your team have done. I intend to start the French tree from the beginning. This time I will make sure to read all of the Tips and Notes and take advantage of the sentence discussions. I think I 'read' more sentence discussions on the Reverse Tree than the French Tree. I now understand that this is the opposite of what would help me learn French. However, like you said, it was an interesting experience :)

I would like to leave a progress report in a few weeks. Merci beaucoup !

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Multi0Lingual4
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1) sait can be translated as "knows" or "knows how" (to do something). It's the same way in Spanish with "se".

2) I'm guessing "arreter" can be translated here as a reflexive verb. I will have to research this more, I have not seen this used. Edit: idiomatic pronomial verb.

3) Not sure, will come back and edit later. Edit: "Y" is used to stand in for a place. Not sure why they have both "y" and "ici" in the same sentence.

4) Again, reflexive verb. Will expand.

5) Reflexive verb. Edit: Pronomial verb.

6) Reflexive verb -- to be more precise, I think it's a pronomial verb, which means the French say "he is retiring himself." An example in English, "I'm going to lay (lie?) myself down."

7) Verb tense Edit: passe compose?

8) Because French

9) The French rarely use "des" when it's a negative, I know there's one situation and maybe more, but default to "de" unless otherwise noted. Edit: doesn't change after "etre".

10) Yeah, French is weird on this. Not sure, I'll let someone more skilled tackle it.

Some helpful resources:

https://www.thoughtco.com/french-pronominal-and-pronominal-verbs-1368926

https://french.yabla.com/lessons.php?lesson_id=670

https://www.frenchtoday.com/blog/french-grammar/french-indefinite-and-partitive-articles

https://www.thoughtco.com/se-souvenir-to-remember-1370918

Try Googling your question, there are hundreds of indepth articles on French grammar. Also, check sentence discussions if you can.

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DreamingOdelia
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Only you can make me laugh and feel confused at the same time lol I especially like 10) "Yeah, French is weird on this." I have not found checking the sentence discussions of much use for two reasons. 1) They are written in French. 2) What I have difficulty with is the opposite of what people are asking about. I do enjoy reading about how the English language is different from the French language. I benefit some from those discussions because they have some English in them.

Thanks for the explanation about using de instead of des in negative sentences. Also, the explanation of sait meaning both "knows" and "knows how to" gives me some peace of mind. I also enjoyed the "he is retiring himself" :^)

I will need to google all the verbs you mentioned.

Thanks for taking time to address my questions. Do you start school this week? What classes will you be taking?

Talking with you is always a breath of fresh air. I look forward to your explanations to any future questions that I might have. Have a fun weekend :^)

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Multi0Lingual4
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I have already started school. I have dropped Orchestra and have done foods instead. Otherwise, I'm doing AP Gov, AP English, AP Bio 2, Debate, Pre-Calc, etc. Senior year is fun! Not...and don't even ask me about college. I don't want to think about it.

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DreamingOdelia
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https://www.duolingo.com/comment/954944$from_email=comment&comment_id=24465008 ML, Please look at this sentence discussion. A few French students were discussing a sentence. One said they didn't understand and the next one said, "That's English" (I paraphrase) I thought of your answer 8) Because French You make me laugh even when we are not talking. How busy have you been? Is it a fun busy? Later...

September 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Multi0Lingual4
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I have been busy, but it's not a fun busy. I reset my German tree, the flag you see now is my German for French speakers flag. I'm stuck at Negations there. Negations wasn't hard in the FR-EN tree, not hard in the EN-FR tree, or any other tree, but it's somehow impossible in the DE-FR tree. Sigh. Oh well.

September 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DreamingOdelia
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Great to hear from you :-) If anyone can figure out the structure of a language, you can :-) Please let me know the steps that you take to understand negations. I know that I will learn from your experience.

How has your new school year been? Do you enjoy your classes, teachers, classmates and schedule?

September 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Lento_Rodriguez
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I am down to dates and famille on my reverse tree, I think I should start over though.

September 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DreamingOdelia
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Hello Lento! :^) I just finished doing Present Perfect again. Now I will do a new lesson of Verbs Infinitive. Tomorrow I will present a couple puzzlers to ML. Lento, what other sites are you using to learn French? Now I want to do dates and famille again! They look comfortable and fun :) Later Lento :^)

September 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Lento_Rodriguez
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The only other site I'm using is the wonderful http://www.languagetransfer.org

I've also been looking for French word frequency lists and I found one with what is supposed to be the 1000 most frequent French words. I'm going to go through it and find the most common verbs and all the most common conjugations of those verbs and put them together and learn them that way. I don't like the way language courses save important conjugations like subjunctive until last and then when you try to read a book the first thing you see is subjunctive. I'm going to try to learn French one verb at a time instead of one tense at a time.

September 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Lento_Rodriguez
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You are way down the tree!

September 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Anneysha7
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Hi, Ev! :) I'm glad to have found this post. :)

Writing a quick reply here so that I can return to it later. :)

I used the reverse tree to test what I learnt in the French for English speakers tree. I did the same as you, I would go back to the French for English speakers tree to review the tips and notes and then test myself in the reverse tree. That way, I found that I could remember more of the tree. :)

I also practised grammar online and used reference books whenever I could.

Right now, I am trying to golden my French tree. :) The reverse is next. :)

September 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DreamingOdelia
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You go girl! :^) Bonne unit Anne ;) I just reread your message. Are you saying that you did not get the message I left for you on your casquette question? Also, did you finish your Reverse French tree?

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/5658740$from_email=commentcomment_id=24276748 Now you will be able to see the message I wrote for you ;)

September 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Anneysha7
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I didn't find a notification. I guess it got buried. :( Was there another message you had written for me? You told there was another part to your reply.

Did you copy-paste that link? :) (excited look)

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Lento_Rodriguez
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Hello Anne! It's been a while since we've had a tree finishing party. I'm happy to get started on my reverse French tree again.

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DreamingOdelia
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Good evening Lento :) I look forward to celebrating our finished trees! If ML isn't done with her Reversed Spanish, I am sure that she has finished at least one tree that has not been celebrated. I don't remember Anne finishing her Reversed French. I can hardly wait to find out if she finished. Let's compare notes soon :^)

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Anneysha7
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Hi Ev, I finished my reverse tree some time ago. :) I am goldening my French trees so that I don't forget French. :)

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Lento_Rodriguez
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Hello Lady! I will have to catch up with you, I haven't been working on the tree much this summer because I've been busy and I've been working on my Spanish.

At the beginning of the year I said that I wanted to concentrate on French a lot this year but I decided to wait on the LT course so the reverse French tree would be easier. It's taking him so long though :(.

September 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Anneysha7
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Hi Lento, happy to hear from you! :)

Do you mean you are going to delete your reverse tree's progress? I completed the reverse tree some time ago. I think it'd be fun to redo the skills. :)

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Lento_Rodriguez
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I don't think I'll delete my progress, I have done that several times with my Spanish tree but I think I'll just go through the skills again without resetting it.

September 5, 2017
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