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  5. "Das Mittagessen ist weder Fi…

"Das Mittagessen ist weder Fisch noch Fleisch."

Translation:The lunch is neither fish nor meat.

March 11, 2013

64 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tkulzer

One of the correct translations listed is "... fish nor fowl". Can "fleisch" really mean "fowl" instead of the more broad "meat"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kyky

I don't think so, as this is an idiom.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cleo42

"Fleisch" cannot mean "fowl" on its own but "weder Fisch noch Fleisch" is an idiom in the same sense as "neither fish nor fowl", so here it's probably a bit confusing that is is used with something that's actually edible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rwillans

Both fowl and meat (Fleisch) are edible?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tor_Heyerdal

"Fowl" in this sense refers to birds/poultry, so yes; they're both edible. lol.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hanspersson

Related to "Vogel", presumably.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hanspersson

This was very confusing since duo normally gives me errors when I try translations that are more idiomatic than literally identical.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/conor.bassoon

So in German is fish not considered meat?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kyky

Exactly. Mammals and birds are "meat".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/conor.bassoon

Interesting. Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Karwendel

In a religous fasting period you are not allowed to eat meat, but you may eat fish. Hundreds of years ago, monks declared a beaver as a fish, so they could eat it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidRussnak

Actually, in most regions fish is considered separate from meat for culinary purposes. It has a lot to do with both textures and flavors and what works best with what. There are also types of vegetarians that find fish acceptable. (Vegetarians, not vegans.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hanspersson

In Sweden, fish is typically considered meat. A menu would have entries for "meat" (meaning beef and pork), "fowl" (or more probably "chicken") and "fish" but someone claiming to be vegetarian and still eat fish would be considered a bit weird (in the sense that that's not how the word is normally used).

Also, you can find people with exactly any combination of eating restrictions to that's difficult to base word distinctions on. (Personally, I'm apescetarian.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatDefende1

My sixth-grade teacher was a pescatarian, and she always used to say, "There's a reason pescatarians aren't vegetarians."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hejmsdz

Is there a similar expression in your language? In Polish we say "ni pies, ni wydra" [neither dog nor otter]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Inferio

in Czech 'ani ryba, ani rak' - 'neither fish, nor crawfish'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/araruney

Croatian 'Ni riba ni meso' in Nominative (Neither fish nor meat)...i figured,as long as we're making a list


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tyndermynder

Russian 'ни рыба ни мясо' - 'ni ryba ni mjaso' [neither fish nor meat]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TimurikSunakbaev

о, говорящий на русском, таких редко здесь можно увидать.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alinbuliga

Romanian "nici peşte, nici carne" (neither fish, nor meat)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JackBond

Doch Fisch ist Fleisch...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tor_Heyerdal

Many, many, many people would disagree. You'd never find fish in the meat section of a menu, for example (or at least almost never). Instead, it gets its own section. Still, many people do consider fish to be meat, all the same. This is a rather divided topic, really. =P Personally, I wouldn't class fish as meat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SonMauri

Help a non native English speaker, please. What does "neither fish nor fowl" means?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnHeiby

"Neither Fish nor Fowl" is not used to describe food. It means it is something unusual and not known to the observer. An enigma.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susanna35

I said "neither fish nor flesh" and it was marked wrong. I think the idiom is "neither fish nor fowl", but I think I have also heard it as "neither fish nor flesh."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ConnorMeredith

I think the issue may be your use of the word "flesh" rather than "meat". Duo seems to prefer the latter.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/northernguy

As they should since the flesh of a grape or similar is not meat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jameslafferty

I can't imagine that "neither fish nor flesh" would refer to anything other than meat. It is old-timey sounding, but in a fun way, at least for this native English speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ConnorMeredith

Ah! I completely forgot that "flesh" also refers to fruits, mushrooms, etc. Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zalivstok

I agree. The English idiom is also "neither fish nor flesh" from Old English flǣsc meaning meat


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EoghanBostock

weil ich ein Vegetarier bin!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mtksy

And to be grammatically correct, it is neither nor, not neither or! As it was in the example


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Angel831279

So what does this idiom mean? No lunch?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kyky

Something cannot really be defined or assigned to a category.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Araucoforever

These 57 comments made my day!! The bottomline is that this is an idiom because Fleisch means meat or flesh. I couldn't find anywhere that it means "fowl".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TARDISToni

I think Duo is trying to introduce us to an idiom here which exists both in German ('weder Fisch noch Fleisch') and in English ('neither fish nor fowl'). However, by relating it to a meal to begin with, it's made it a bit confusing. The idiom may have its origins in food and religion, as is discussed in great detail in the comments above, but its true meaning is '(the subject) is not easily categorized'; 'it is neither one thing nor another'; 'it falls easily into no category.'

I'm a native English speaker who once upon a time spoke German fairly well (meaning I knew the German idiom as well as the English), and yet I missed seeing the idiom in both languages. Because the subject is Mittagessen, I translated it as "the lunch is neither fish nor meat," which is a literal translation (and which was accepted by Duo.) I think the introduction of this idiom might have been more successful if it had been given in its simplest form of "Es ist weder Fisch noch Fleisch."

So no, 'Fleisch' does not mean "fowl." :-) They're just two parallel idioms which did not come down into modern speech exactly the same way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/krzysztofik

"The lunch is neither fish nor fowl." is incorrect? Even though that is an idiom?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JonathanGa100171

It is not easily recognizable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/XoooOverdose

If you were to just simply say "neither" would it just be "weder noch"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kyky

"neither... nor" - "weder... noch" and "either... or" - "entweder... oder"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tor_Heyerdal

That wasn't the question. The question was what just "neither" by itself is. Like in the following:

Person A: "Is this a mouse or a rat?"

Person B: "Neither."

I'm curious to know the answer to this as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wiederholen

In your example (mouse or rat?) in response I'd say "keine" to mean "neither." You could say "keiner von ihnen" (neither of them) but that is just extra words.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tor_Heyerdal

Danke sehr. =) Das ist sinnvoll.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mostafahassan724

what does Fowl mean ??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Patti410

Fowl is just another word for Bird.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Randonneur3

Indeed, it was the common word for all wild birds only 150 years ago. And of course domestic chickens for eggs or the table were known as fowl sixty years ago (before KFC and the like).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thiudans2

one cannot say "neither…or" in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susanna35

Actually, come to think of it, I think I have heard it as "neither flesh nor fowl" which wouldn't fit this at all.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shimerab

I said for the last part "neither fish nor meat" If they wanted fowl, why not use Vogel? Up until just now Fleisch meant meat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JackBond

From what I've gathered, it's just idiomatic weirdness. Fleisch in general does mean flesh or meat, not specifically from a type of animal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fionaj

what is the difference between weder and wieder?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JackBond

Weder is "neither".

Wieder is "again".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daarmcd

I have being translating the word ""wieder" as neither and have been correct so far.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jane-Baker

lunch oder luncheon - They are interchangable, alto adults share luncheon... kids have lunch, a picnic is lunch


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dacflyer

Weird , fowl is a kind of meat, certainly is not a fruit or vegetable , so i read it as fish nor meat..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HerrBob3

We don't 'the lunch ' We just say lunch.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sheryl742408

Gotsa be chicken, then!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Giga_bites

Weder Fisch noch Fleisch ist eigentlich immer in übertragenem Sinne gemeint - also geht es nicht wirklich um essbare oder schmackhafte Tiere! Es geht um jemanden oder etwas, der/die/das in keine gängige Kategorie passt! Also "zwischen 2 Stühlen sitzt" oder so! Jemand, der sich weder der einen noch der anderen Gruppe zugeörig fühlt, ist weder Fisch noch Fleisch! - zB wer sich als "divers" empfindet, ist weder mannlich noch weiblich.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/khanhu

Just for a change, I used luncheon instead of lunch and it was rejected. I flagged that because so far as I know both are translated into German as Mittagessen


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sandraann2

what's the difference between weder and untweder.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Clankie73

Nasty sentence. Both words fit.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zach602152

Does "noch" always translate to "nor"? In modern English, "nor" is usually substituted for "or" (I don't want fish (n)or bread).

How does this work in German? Must we always use "noch" in the negative, even when we could use "or" in English? Many thanks in advance!

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