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"Jsou to staré ženy."

Translation:They are old women.

1 year ago

16 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Yuumax

What's the point of the "to" here? Wouldn't "Jsou staré ženy" mean the same thing?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Paimicek

Hi, "staré ženy" is description. Even though you say "Jsou staré ženy" I'd immediately ask "Who or what are they?". So you need to clarify "To jsou staré ženy"or "Ony jsou staré ženy", "Babičky jsou staré ženy", etc. I think grammatically I'd say that you can skip subject but object needs to be clear, not sure though

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tragram
tragram
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No, it wouldn't. I can't really explain why you need to include the word but without it, it would sound as an oddly phrased "There are old women."

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mattvick

I asked a Czech friend, who didn't really know, but we surmise that the 'to' is needed because without it when using the third person it isn't clear who we are speaking about.

First person, it's clear:
Jsem stará žena - myself (there's only one me)
Jsme staré ženy - us (there's only one us)

Second person, it's clear:
Jsi stará žena - you (there's only one you)
Jste staré ženy - you guys (there's only one group of you)

Third person, it's not clear which woman/women we are talking about:
Je stará žena - a specific woman or another unspecified woman?
Jsou staré ženy - some specific women or other unspecified women?

We need to add 'that' (to) or 'they' (ony - at the beginning) in order to clarify who

In giving the English translation as an answer it's not needed to add anything, such as 'They are those old women' because in English we don't omit the personal pronoun (they) as is done in Czech.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SeanMeaneyPL
SeanMeaneyPL
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Thank you for taking the time to reply so thoroughly. I begin to get what you mean, but I think the process will be one of osmosis to really internalise the habit and use of this structure.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/I2cGAc67
I2cGAc67
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Thank you Mattvick and others, but to me, whose native language is English, your explanation doesn't entirely make sense, to my native English speaking mind, anyway : ) Here's why: I fail to perceive how the "to" adds clarity, as you claim. That word ("to") is also vague, it's just a demonstrative pronoun like "those" in English. In this sentence, clearly we're referring to women, so we know we mean people and not things, even without the "to."

To my native English language mind, "they are old women" would be "jsou stary zena" and "those are old women" might be "jsou to stary zena" or, as I (native English speaker) would naively expect, "to jsou stary zena."

What I infer from other comments here, is that "jsou stary zena" just sounds strange to native Czech speakers and it's simply not said that way. And I can understand if that's the case- every language has its idiosyncrasies.

By the way, can one say "To jsou stary zena" or would that be wrong for some reason, or just sound odd, or mean something else?

Thanks, everybody!

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Anders64825

What if you were to say "Ony jsou staré ženy" or "Jsou ty staré ženy"? Is "to" a demonstrative or personal pronoun in this context?

Also, the Wikipedia page on Czech Declension mentions that "to" could be used such that this means "These are old women". Would that be correct?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/cathnog
cathnog
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ony jsou staré ženy would work. not sure if jsou ty valid, they seem to favout jsou to. using to would give meaning "these are old women". These are == they are

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JanisaChatte
JanisaChatte
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"They are those old women" what's wrong here ?

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ettoreg60

Yes, use of "to" here, confuses me as well. I don't understand why it is needed. Furthermore, I would expect "ty" is used as "staré ženy" is feminine plural .

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SeanMeaneyPL
SeanMeaneyPL
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Just a hypotheseis. The "to" seems to fulfil the function of French "ce" in c'est or ce sont here. Ce sont de vieilles dames. They are some old women, but not all the old women that exist. Can any native speaker help here? This is hard to understand.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Proman2520
Proman2520Plus
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Yeah, the "to" confuses me here. Would you need that any time you are saying 'those are' or 'they are'?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnCatDubh
AnCatDubh
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Why not ‘the old women’?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MikheevSasha
MikheevSasha
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Why not "they are those old women" or "they are the old women" ?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/cathnog
cathnog
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tried they are those old women and it came up as incorrect. I will try they are the old women next. using these are old women/ they are old women is correct. To jsou or jsou to seems to be used more often than the specific oni/ony/ona pronoun.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/cboteros

I also tried "They are those old women" and was shown as incorrect. Any native Czech speaker who could let us know if this would be correct in fact or why is it incorrect?

11 months ago