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"Nee, ze wil hier geen thee bij."

Translation:No, she does not want tea with this.

September 6, 2017

39 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SalishBird

Could I also say: "Nee, ze wil hier geen thee mee." ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dutchesse722

No, not really. When it comes to something going along with something else, in this case tea (maybe she's eating a sandwich but does not want tea to go along with it), you would use bij.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SalishBird

Thanks for the quick response. Ik kan het verstaan maar soms is het moeilijk!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dutchesse722

Geen dank! Ja, een vreemde taal leren is meestal niet makkelijk.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArielLeung2

I seem to recall "thee met melk" from previous exercise, and some explanations about "bij" referring to the closeness of location and "met" some other relationships. So I'm quite confused here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

Think of "bij" here as meaning "along with". "She does not want tea along with this".

In contrast, "tea with milk" means tea and milk mixed together into a single drink. It is not really a case of milk along with tea in the same way that you have, for example, crumpets along with tea.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Laure-DL-NL

No, she doesn't want tea with it isn't accepted. Should it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

No, DL is pretty consistent about distinguishing "it" from "this" or "that".

So how to say your sentence with "it"? Maybe: "Ze wil er geen thee bij".

I'm guessing that "with it" = "erbij", and that the "er" can be separated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HBus
  • 1031

There is no 'er' in the sentence, is it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

The English sentence that DL gives us here uses the word "this" rather than the word "it". DL gives us the Dutch for the English sentence that uses "this" -- and yes, you are right, there is no "er" in that sentence.

But what if the English sentence had been "No, she doesn't want tea with it". (In other words, what if the Engish sentence had used "it" instead of "this"?) In that case, I am speculating, the Dutch would indeed use "er", as follows: "Ze wil er geen thee bij".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HBus
  • 1031

Ok, got it. The key is the word "hier" (not "bij"), which rather means "this" than "that" or "it", because its close.

Dank je wel!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/H_Butler

Is there a preference in Dutch to separate words when there is a choice?

I always prefer not to separate if I don't have to.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

My understanding regarding these adverbial constructions is that the Dutch do typically separate them in conversation.

But in academic or literary written Dutch, they are more likely to be kept together.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NVed4

"No she does not want this with tea" isn't accepted. How is this said in Nederlands?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

I imagine one would say: "Nee, ze wil dit/deze niet bij thee". You would choose either "dit" or "deze" depending on what you were referring to.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alisdair293621

I had a breakthrough on this when i realised that "Hierbij" is basically the same as the English "Hereby", but where English only uses it in formal and contractual contexts (ex "I hereby leave all my worldly possessions to Duo" to mean "with this will I leave everything to Duo"), Dutch uses it much more frequently and in informal contexts.

I think, anyway.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shahram23967

Can you say " ze wil geen thee hier bij


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. I think you might be able to say "Ze wil hierbij geen thee".

Notice that "hierbij" is written without a space. More important, I think you want to put an adverbial like "hierbij" right after the conjugated verb, before an indefinite direct object like "geen thee".

That is the usual pattern that we have seen in the DL Dutch sentences, and I don't see why this sentence would use a different model. But experts, please correct me if I'm wrong!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CJ.Dennis

I take it "hier" is "this" and "bij" is "with"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

Yes, in the combination "hierbij" what you say is true. But of course separately, hier = here and bij = by or at or with.

In English, compare "here" and "there" to "this "and "that". The first word of each pair indicates proximity, the second word indicates distance.

"With this ring I thee wed" -> "I hereby/herewith thee wed".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Illusie

What happens to "hier" here


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xMerrie

"Hierbij" = "with this". It can be separated. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dryn-Dryn

Is it possible/correct to not be separated? and if yes, how the sentence will look like? Thank you in advance


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AngelaWalt5

Does the first part always go after the verb and the second at the end?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

No, not always. See the other comments on this page regarding separation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FreekVerkerk

"No, she does not want to have tea with this" niet goed???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nezmah

This is confusing. Should't heirbij mean 'hereby' and respectively ditbij would mean 'with this'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

Hi Nesmah,

heirby -> hierbij

You probably already know that Dutch does not use the form preposition + pronoun unless the pronoun refers to a person. Otherwise Dutch uses what is known as a pronomial adverb. So we have:

  1. They thought of him = Zij hebben aan hem gedacht
  2. They thought of it = Zij hebben eraan gedacht = Zij hebben er gedacht aan.

As in sentence 2 above, the pronomial adverb consists of first an adverb, then a preposition. This can be written solid, or separated with other words in between.

Notice that the first part of the pronomial adverb construction is an adverb, not a pronoun. So, for example, your suggestion of "ditbij" is impossible because "dit" is a demonstrative pronoun, not an adverb.

Furthermore, the adverb used in this construction is not just any adverb, but generally is an adverb that, if used by itself, would be directional or spatial in nature. That is, the adverbs used are words like er, daar, hier, waar.

In other words, in the pronomial adverb construction, each of the various Dutch pronouns, whether personal, demonstrative, interrogative, relative, or indefinite, is replaced by a directional/spatial adverb as follows:

pronoun -> directional/spatial adverb
het, hem, ze -> er
dit, deze -> hier
dat, die -> daar
wat -> waar
iets -> ergens
niets -> nergens
alles -> overal


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lucasrsantana

ze wil hierbij geen thee. is it right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MentalPinball

Hi lucasrsantana,

I'd say that it's not grammatically incorrect, but it sounds terribly unnatural to my ears.

I think that in this case, hierbij is a circumposition. Circumpositions are formed by two prepositions that are glued together, which break off and 'wrap' the Direct Object.

I cannot come up now with a counterexample to disproof what I'm saying, I'm sure there are, of course, since I'm not an expert. But in this case, it has to be used like that, you need to say ze wil hier geen thee bij.

Hope this helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

Hi Mental. I would say that "hierbij" is a pronomial adverb rather than a circumposition. Because it is a pronomial adverb, it can be split.

The word hierbij is formed from an adverb and a preposition, rather than two prepositions. The Dutch pronomial adverb structure is used to translate the English structure preposition + pronoun. Here we have:
hierbij = with this


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MentalPinball

Hi ion,

thank for your correction! :) You've taught me something new, and I love learning new things every day :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

I appreciate all the efforts from the DL Dutch team!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Laure-DL-NL

Could you, or someone else, please evaluate the "unnatrualness" of these word orders? Or their (maybe slightly) different meaning/emphasis?

  • Nee, ze wil geen thee hierbij
  • Nee, hierbij wil ze geen thee
  • Nee, ze wil hier geen thee bij

And what about the same sentences with "zij" instead of "ze"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

And in addition to the three above, also the following:
Nee, ze wil hierbij geen thee
Nee, hier wil ze geen thee bij


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NicholasWo924530

Can anyone (Dutch speakers) just literally write down all the possible answers (word orders) for these sentences?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert595234

So what's the difference between 'with this' (supposedly correct) and 'with it' (supposedly incorrect)? To an English speaker they are the same in this situation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

erbij = with it
hierbij = with this
daarbij = with that

Similar in meaning, but not exactly the same. I agree that in a real-world situation, a native speaker of English might say one just as well as the other. But they are nevertheless different, and I accept that a language learning program would insist on more precision.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antonio98510

F*** this lesson.....

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