"Bread and apples"

Translation:빵과 사과

September 8, 2017

73 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sad_aureole

But why not 방과 사과들?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/puspaanggr

Maybe 들 used to person only like 남자들 and 여자들. And 방 means 'room'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/megha31110

U have written room instead of bread


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ScoobyGoofy123

Bang means room, ppang means bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jorno1

How do you know that apple is plural?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MajorMinus2

Just '사과' without '들' can mean both singular and plural. Like '사과가 많다' (=There is a lot of apples). '들' emphasizes plurals.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bubbleteamin

I believe 들 is mainly used for people, though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SassafrasFran

According to the notes for Basics 1, "using 들 is often optional. It can be omitted if plurality is implied within the sentence, and is otherwise necessary for animate nouns/people but uncommon with inanimate nouns."

While an apple is a living thing, it's not generally considered an animate noun linguistically.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Spades5

Oh right, i remember reading this somewhere


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ani_yeol

I don't know where ate the notes in mobile app.can you help:(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jee247189

There are notes??? I don't see any on Korean, even though there were in previous languages


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LiKenun

Add brie and you've got a nice sandwich.


<h1>Some conjecture regarding the origin of ⟨와⟩</h1>

The difference between ⟨과⟩ and ⟨와⟩ boils down to the initial consonant ⟨ㄱ⟩; ⟨과⟩ is used after consonants and ⟨와⟩ is used after vowels. This is a very old pattern going all the way back to the time 한글 was invented! Although ⟨와⟩ has never changed form in written 한글, old writing practices suggest that ⟨ㅇ⟩ (not ⟨ㆁ⟩) actually had a weak pronunciation—likely some kind of [ɣ]—in the time of Middle Korean.

The [ɣ] sound can be found in many modern languages as: Spanish ⟨amigo⟩ [a̠ˈmi.ɣo̟]; Polish ⟨niechże⟩ [ˈɲɛɣ.ʐɛ]; Greek ⟨γάλα⟩ [ˈɣɐ.lɐ]; Arabic ⟨غريب‎⟩ [ɣæˈriːb]; and Azerbaijani ⟨yoğurt⟩ [jo.ɣurt]. In many cases, [ɣ] can be directly traced back to an old [k] or [g] sound. ⟨amigo⟩, for example, derived from Latin ⟨amicus⟩. ⟨yoğurt⟩ derived from Old Turkic ⟨yogurt⟩. The condition for the weakening sound change was when [g] or [k] came in between vowels. This process is evident in another language, Turkish, in which intervocalic ⟨k⟩ → ⟨ğ⟩ change is an active part of the language’s morphology (e.g., ⟨gelecek⟩ + ⟨im⟩ → ⟨geleceğim⟩). At the time the Latin alphabet was adopted for the Turkish language, ⟨ğ⟩ was pronounced like [ɣ]. Nowadays in standard Turkish, ⟨ğ⟩ is often silent or elongates a previous vowel.

The modern Korean ⟨와⟩ may be a byproduct of ⟨과⟩ having undergone the same weakening process over the centuries:

  • (Pre-MK) “밥과” [pap.kwa] → (MK) ⟨밥과⟩ [pap.kwa] → ⟨밥과⟩ [pap.kwa]
  • (Pre-MK) “파과” [pʰa.kwa] → (MK) ⟨파와⟩ [pʰa.ɣwa] → ⟨파와⟩ [pʰa.wa]

There are a lot of other suffixes that alternate based on the phonetic environment. Most of them are easy to explain. But 이-가 alternation is much harder since historically, it was “이” in all phonetic environments (sometimes with contraction). “가” only started being used in the 17 century. One might be tempted to settle for the Japan origin theory since their subject marker is identical, but its use supposedly predates an increase in Korean contact with Japanese and it’s very uncommon for languages to borrow grammatical particles. (Presently, the subject marker’s etymology is still unresolved.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrendaMarques101

Why not "빵와 사과"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dean740847

와 is for words ending in vowels, 과 is for words ending in consonants. (Sorta like a/an in English)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LiKenun

ends in a consonant.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mati1622

빵과 사과 and 빵하고 사과 are right ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Ann.e

What is '및'???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/soop_soop_soop

What is the difference between "빵과 사과" and "빵하고 사과" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gangsnguns

Why can't i use 하고?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sheren23

Why sometimes 와 and sometimes 과?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danitabot1

와 goes after vowel and 과 after consonants, I think


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ph.GiJsDi

Why im not able to type bread 빵


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chrisanna861276

I don't know if we have different keyboard but I think you are supposed to long press the ㅂ to get ㅃ, ㅈ to get ㅉ and so on.... Or you can press the button you normally use to get capital letters and you will see all the double consonant thingy like these....ㅃㅉㄸㄲㅆ


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ph.9Q9UKs

How to right bread and apples in korean


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doua727293

빵이 및 사과 ?? Is 및 like 와 and 랑..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MicaelSeg

What would I need to do to invert the orfer of the nouns? As "사과" is already written with "과" at the end, would the phrase become "사과과 빵" or something else, since it seems weird to pronounce?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alby9000

So i noviced both bread and apples end with "과", is it just a coincidence or does "과" have a function?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

i noviced both bread and apples end with "과", is it just a coincidence

Yes, it's a coincidence.

The 과 in 사과 means "fruit" (Sino-Korean 果). It's not related with the 와/과 that means "and".

"bread" is just 빵.

빵과 is "bread and".

(Korean writes 와/과 without a space, unlike English "and" but like Latin "-que" in "Senatus populusque Romani = SPQR = The Senate and the people of Rome".)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/trevorist90

Why is the second syllable in apple 과 (sounds like go-a) pronounced differently than the 과 (gwa) attached to bread in this sentence? Is there some pronunciation rule based on the preceding syllable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheSharpestGirl

I think the pronunciation for apple is wrong, tho im not sure


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Samarbadawy

And is getting me confused?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TimaAtrach

Tbe syllable shown for and (to choose from) seems wrong to me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheRest1

if i wanna say "Apples and bread" should i say "사과과 빵" or just "사과 빵"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CinnamonSweets

It would be 사과와 빵, since sagwa ends in a vowel, so you use wa instead of gwa.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LixLex

What does 과 mean?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

The first one means "and", the second one is part of the word for "apple(s)" (and comes from a Chinese word meaning "fruit").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leticia126578

Its just bread apples?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Malika161159

Why i can't use 빵 하고 사과?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fiyalka2

Maybe because of the space between 빵 and 하고? The 하고 should come directly after the noun without space: 빵하고 사과. There is, however, a space after it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tisha973658

Why is the correct answer sometime man woman and not" man AND women" even though the question written in korean has the word and in it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lisamybias

I know that this question can sound stupid, but what is the "과" at the end of "빵" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OldYogg

How do you distinguish between 사과 (apples) and apple as in just one?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/c.est-moi

you can often tell by the context


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fiyalka2

You don't. It is the same word. The context may or may not help to make the distinction in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/V.Lundgren

Why is 빵하고 wrong here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StariteWishes

Why doesn't 사과 end with 들?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fruity_J

I've seen 과 and 와 used for "and" does it depend on the emding sound of the previous word which one i use?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sanjida217053

Can anyone please tell me the pronunciation of 빵과?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kat614024

duolingo said, this 빵와 사과들 was right, but I have a typo it's 빵과 instead but why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JSChang1

because if the syllable ends with a vowel, it will be wa 와, if the syllable ends in a consonant, it will be gwa 과. since 빵 ends in a consonant, the word for "and" will be 과.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Prachi0786

What is 하고 means?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danitabot1

I think is also for say "and" but I have to learn more about it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TonyaBlair2

Why is it saying '및' is right instead of '과' when they have been using '과/와' this while time?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SleepySnuggles

I think I'm a little confused on how the different versions of 'and' change the pronunciation of the words they are added to. Is this like a shortcut or easy to understand way to remember?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danitabot1

Can i also say 빵 하고 사과?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mi6o14

Why i can't used 빵 과 사과? Right answer is 빵및사과. What means 및?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yaya338449

What is 및? They keep telling me i have typo cause that


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arezoomin

What is the meaning of 하고?

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