"The nights are long now."

Translation:Noci jsou teď dlouhé.

September 8, 2017

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noci jsou dlouhé teď - why is it wrong? I thought there is free word order in Czech.


Free but not that much. Czech is way more flexible than English which might make things more difficult for students. There does not seem to be much rhyme or reason yet sometimes things just do not sound right. Your sentence does not sound right.


Hi kacenka9, I have always wanted to find a way to go and thank people who created this Czech course. I remember nueby who has written a lot of updates in the incubator and you who are the moderator. I've been having a lot of fun so thanks a lot for all your hard work.


Děkuji pěkně!


What if I was talking and said, Noci jsou dlouhe' and then to clarify I didn't mean like, for some people going through depression, Nights are long, but maybe I want to add "now", because it's Winter and incidences of depression tend to be higher then, can't I say, "Noci jsou dlouhe' ... (pause) ted." Maybe they didn't understand I meant now, this season, during this Winter, and take it that I mean "Nights are always long" when you are going thru hard times, although the context was clear, so I put it on the end because... I already said the rest. I don't think I would repeat the sentence with "ted" inserted in the middle, but would just add it.

And maybe I emphasize the word "ted" at the end because the sentence is important to a discussion of 2nd shift or 3rd shift work and after I say, Noci jsou dlouhe', with or without pause, I add, "during the Winter season, 'ted'"?


Sure. But you can do that with any sentence - in any language. Leave out a word that normally occurs at the beginning or in the middle, and then, after a pause... as an afterthought... add the left-out word. Everybody does that in speech, because people often speak in incomplete sentences. The problem is, a word added like this is technically not part of the sentence, it's an added bit outside of the sentence. If we were to accept such word orders, we'd have to accept pretty much any word order. That would be counterproductive to teaching, very. See what I did there? I added "very" at the end, after a pause, even though I was supposed to say it before "counterproductive". But you wouldn't normally consider the sentence "That would be counterproductive to teaching very" to be acceptable in English, would you? It's Yoda speak.

That said, you can construct a hypothetical situation for all sorts of weird word orders in Czech. Let's say it's November and person A says: "V prosinci budou noci dlouhé." (Nights will be long in December). Person B finds it odd, disagrees and replies: "Noci jsou dlouhé teď!" - they're already long now! - that would work, but in the majority of cases, person B would add "už" (already) in there somewhere: "Noci už jsou dlouhé teď!" or "Noci jsou dlouhé už teď!".


I'm gonna be a holdout. I think it is also right. If not, I'd like to understand a little more about why not and ask a native speaker is there any circumstance under which you would or could say 'ted' at the end rather than before. What is it saying, one way versus the other, as well? I will often use a pause, after an ambiguous statement, and add a word or phrase to further delineate and define the thought.


Now it's nyní and teď


Why is it wrong to say ty noci?


I second this. My previous question was to translate "Noci jsou teď dlouhé", which I translated as "Nights are long now", it was correct. Now with this question tells me to translate "THE nights are long now" to Czech. As I recognize the difference, I translated it as "Ty noci jsou teď dlouhé", which was marked as incorrect. That's straightout confusing to me. As there are not many language pairs with Czech I have to study it through English and these little things add unnesessary challenge


It sounds so redundant that it becomes unnatural.


How would one say "these nights" or "those nights"? Would "ty" still be omitted in those cases?


This is easy:

  • these nights: tyto noci (more formal) or tyhle noci (more casual)
  • those nights: ty noci (normal) or tamty noci (if pointing at them, uncommon with something intangible like nights)

  • 1114

This is sort of an unsatisfying answer. Can you elaborate on cases where this does or doesn't happen?


When English requires the definite article (just like now in this sentence before the word "definite", and now again before "word") because of grammar, then there is usually nothing in Czech, because Czech doesn't use articles as a grammatical feature.

If, on the other hand, the article in English is not just required by grammar, but it actually makes a distinction between something indefinite ("a") and something definite ("the"), we may use a demonstrative pronoun in Czech ("ten" for masculine singular nominative). If replacing the "the" in English by "that" works and doesn't sound odd, it's a good sign that "ten" will be used in Czech.

There are borderline cases, of course.


I got here via Write This in Czech.

I wrote "Teď noci jsou dlouhé," which was marked incorrect. The correct answer given was "Noci nyní jsou dlouhé," while the correct answer shown above is "Noci jsou teď dlouhé."

I'm thinking that maybe my answer was wrong because of a rule that doesn't let "teď " be the first word in a sentence. But if that's not it, can someone tell me what was wrong? Thanks!

UPDATE ----- I just got this back again and was correct this time with "Noci teď jsou dlouhé." So I'll go with a "Teď can't be the first word" rule until someone tells these is no such thing! :-)


Um.. "Noci teď jsou dlouhé" is not the standard word order either. And you certainly CAN start a sentence with "teď", you just have to arrange the rest of the words accordingly. In a regular sentence, the copula "jsou" should be in the second position.

"Noci jsou teď dlouhé." is the most regular sentence with the default word order, where the focus is on "dlouhé" - that's the main new information being conveyed.

"Teď jsou noci dlouhé" stresses the "teď" more, but still conveys "dlouhé" as the new information.

"Teď jsou dlouhé noci" is slightly different - more like "Now we have long nights" treating the "long nights" as a unit, a thing that is happening now, as opposed to describing nights as long.

All the three variants above are very similar to each other with some nuances. I can imagine saying "Noci teď jsou dlouhé" in a specific conversation, but I wouldn't choose is as the standard standalone translation. And other possible word orders would be unnatural in a declarative sentence.

And a side note: for "now", "teď" is used much more commonly, while "nyní" is quite formal.


Why was "Ty noci jsou ted' dlouhe" incorrect?

[deactivated user]

    Maybe you have used an apostrophe instead of a háček there? The háček above lowercase ď and ť looks like an apostrophe but it's not.


    It is a bit weird sign. It is hacek above capitals and an apostrophe above lowercase letters, but a bit closer to them.


    It's always háček (ˇ)

    But when a printed letter is "tall", the háček is printed in a reduced form which looks like an apostrophe really close to the letter. This only happens with the letters t > ť and d > ď. (In Slovak this also concerns the letter l > ľ)

    All other letters have a regular háček: ě,č,ň,ř,š,ž

    In handwriting, most people use the full háček (ˇ) everywhere.


    Oh really? You mean, when you write by hand, you place the full ˇ above t and d?


    Depends on the individual style, but with the narrow tall tops it is usually behind, not above.

    school script


    Afterwards it came up correct when I dropped the "Ty", but left everything else the same. Any thoughts?


    The nights is a general noun, "the" does not mean "these" here, therefore we don't need "ty". As far as I understand it, being Slav, but not Czech.


    Depends on context, if the nights out there under the stars and moon are long, you won't use it, if those are short and you've been talking about your night shift nights, you would use "ty".


    That's a good observation.


    Ty noci jsou ted dlouhe was marked wrong...would it be understandable? I get confused with ty, to, ta, ten, anyway, so I probably made a mistake there.


    It would be understandable, but strange. I would use that for "Those nights...", which is strange combined with "now".


    Maybe the course should do a better job in teaching correct word order. Seems like an easy thing to do in the skill tips. Which are still not available in the app by the way.


    To have skill tips for word order, first there has to be a Word Order Skill, which does not exist in the live tree. (Maybe there will be one in a future release. LOTS of people would be happy to see one.)

    And if there were a Word Order Skill, Duolingo's tips format would need to have a lot more flexibility than it does now to be able to accommodate all/most/a whole lot/a reasonable bare minimum of the information that would be required to cover the topic -- and the current tips limit is not even close.

    So, for now, on-the-fly Q&A in the sentence discussions is the only way to go -- even though the Czech team members, as much as the learners, recognize that what is possible now is not ideal.

    As for the lack of Tips & Notes in the apps, that's also a Duo system-side issue about which the course team can do nothing. But the T&N can be accessed from both desktop and mobile browsers, which many people may not realize.


    "Easy thing to do"? I am glad I did not read this with coffee in my mouth.


    Had I seen your comment a few seconds later than I did, I would've had tea in mine! I did manage to swallow my oatcake without choking on it, though, even without the tea. :-)


    It corrected me from teď to nyní.... what is the difference?


    There is no difference. I guess that in your sentence was some other mistake and the system showed you according your wrong translation the closest correct answer.


    "Noci jsou teď dlouhé" je dobré, ale ne "Teď noci jsou dlouhé"?


    I have the same question - why is that word order incorrect?


    Jsou sounds much better in the second position here. Teď jsou noci dlouhé.

    [deactivated user]

      How am I supposed to put letter " d' " physically? I have English keyboard but I switched layout to Czech. I learned to use ěščřžýáíé section.


      Please ask similar questions in the general Czech forum. Press te čárka key (to the right of the numbers/...íé) and then press d.


      So, how would one translate "The nights are now long."? That is, meaning the length of the day is more important relative to "now".


      You can always do the same as in English and keep the most common word order above and just stress the word you want. Or you can put the comment at the end, see the answer of AgnusOinas for the best forms.

      I am not exactly sure what you have in mind, but the basic "Noci jsou teď dlouhé." sounds best to me.


      Is "noci jsou dlouhé ted'' correct too?


      Only in very specific circumstances. This has already been discussed, see my answer at the top of this discussion.


      Can I write: " Teď noci jsou dlouhé" ?


      See the answer by AgnusOinas to BoneheadBass. Please always read existing before asking a new question.


      Ty noci jsou teď dlouhé is correct. My boyfriend is Czech so he does not understand why duolingo recognises it wrong.


      Most of us are Czech here. The "Ty" in "Ty noci" is clearly superfluous and corresponds to "those nights" as explained before. Ask your boyfriend whether he "Sedí u toho stolu na té židli a pracuje na tom počítači.".


      I supplied the above translation exactly when asked, and the response to it was that my third word (ted') was underlined, as is done for errors, and I was informed it contained a typo.


      ted' and teď (TED' and TEĎ) are not the same. Do not use an apostrophe where a caron (háček) must be used.


      "Noci jsou nyní dlouhé" why is it wrong?


      It's accepted, just not with "ty noci".


      The nights are long now???


      What is the purpose of this comment?


      Ty noci jsou ted dlouhe , why is it wrong?? I am from czech so i don't know, where is problem


      Kdy jste něco takového řekla? Jaké "ty noci"? Oproti jakým jiným nocem? Když jsou dlouhé noci, jsou prostě dlouhé všechny současné noci, ukazování na ně nedává smysl a znělo by to jako hotentot.


      But even in english you can say. "nights are long now." without context it's really difficult to interpret the intention of the speaker, if he means some specific nights or the overall nights.

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