"Why are Žofie's sons not here?"

Translation:Proč tady nejsou synové Žofie?

September 11, 2017

19 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nick384536

With every sentence I'm getting more confused about the word order

June 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BoneheadBass

I'm still confused with word order, but I seem to be getting better at identifying what does and doesn't sound correct. Why? I think because I spend so much time going over the lessons again and again. While I'm not always right by any means, and I still affectionately hate Word Order, it definitely has improved for me! So there's hope... :-)

August 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

If you ask something narrower, perhaps we can help.

June 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cc1H5

Why word "syny", as in "Proč tady nejsou syny Žofie?", is incorrect?

September 11, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/endless_sleeper

You have to use the nominative case, not the accusative. That's why synové is correct, and syny is not.

September 11, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeinadSpoon

Why not syni? Isn't that the normal nominative plural for masculine animate nouns ending in n?

November 11, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

Not always, there are two possible endings like: páni, pánové where both are posible. There is also the ending in sing. soused- pl. sousedé = neighbour(s).

But not always it is the case, often only one of them is possible. And there are several rules how to choose and they are not that simple (Czech handbook). For example:

Short words tend to use -ové.

Animal names use more -i.

Proper names use more -ové.

Sometimes both are possible, but -ové is more formal standard and -i is for spoken Czech (less formal, but not completely colloquial).

There are some dialectal differences.

Regular phoneme changes of the stem wovel induce the -i ending: k > c (klukkluci), h > z (pstruhpstruzi = trout), ch > š (hochhoši)

June 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dillon613160

Where does synové come from? Isn't the nominative plural syny?

May 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FreakySam

Hi, no. I had the same problem. The nominative plural is synové: http://prirucka.ujc.cas.cz/?slovo=syn

May 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

And in spoken dialects it is pretty complex synové

But this map shows historical tendencies. Today everything becomes equalized. And the standard is more likely to come from Bohemia, not Moravia. We oppress them. So that's why it is "synové".

June 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LICA98

what's the difference between tu and tady

September 11, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CJMBenz

How about the difference between tu, tady and zde?

November 17, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fehrerdef

as far as I know there is none

February 26, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

yep

June 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nueby

There is the effect of the shortness of "tu" on the naturally sounding word order. It is so short that it takes on the enclitic behavior, meaning it likes to go after the first unit of meaning in its clause and sounds rather out of place in the clause-initial and clause-terminal positions. However, it is not an obligatory enclitic, so I have been adding the more marginal sounding translations whenever I notice their absence.

June 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrankRiswick

I answered "proč nejsou tady ...." and was corrected "proč tu nejsou ...", whereas "proč tady nejsou ..." is the official translation. What did I do wrong? Is it the word order?

January 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

With adverbs and adverbial phrases (of location, of time and others) it is always questionable where you can and where you can not put them. This one will be one of the lesser used orders. You can find almost anything in spoken Czech, but I am not sure if this is OK for written Czech.

June 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/claudio98_

This may sound stupid, but even though I've been through genitives for a while already, I can't still see why isn't it needed the genitive plural form (synů) here: it's Zofie's sons, the sons of Zofie the ones we are talking about, so in some way there should exist a need of expressing whose sons they are, right?

June 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrankRiswick

In this sentence sons is the subject, so they are in nominative: 'synové'. They are Žofie's sons, so 'Žofie' is genitive, which is indistinguishable from the nominative in this word.

June 27, 2019
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