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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvritMiron12

Ugric languages: Khanty and Mansi!

In the past time, I looked after, what languages are do related with Hungarian, and I wanted to know:

Is there ANY language what I can understand without learning "too much"? (If I'm a Hungarian speaker)

The answer: YESSSS (there are actually two of them):

KHANTY: • In Khanyt: ханты ясаң (hantĩ jasaň) • Also known as in Hungarian: "Hanti" or "Osztják" (the second one come from Russian) • Number of speakers: 9,600 (from 30,900 Khanty peoples --- 2010) • Dialects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanty_language#Varieties • Alphabet usage: Mainly modified Cyrillic, formerly modified Latin • Spoken in the Khanty–Mansi Autonomous Okrug

MANSI: • In Mansi: Мāньси лāтыӈ • In Hungarian: "Manysi" or "Vogul" • Number of speakers: 940 (from 12,300 Mansi people --- 2010) • Dialects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansi_language#Varieties • Alphabet usage: Mainly modified Cyrillic, formerly modified Latin • Spoken in the Khanty–Mansi Autonomous Okrug

Comparison:

  1. Khanty vs Hungarian: https://dailymagyar.wordpress.com/category/hungarian-words-all-posts/hungarian-vs-khanty/

  2. Mansi vs Hungarian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansi_language#Comparison_with_Hungarian

Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug:

Flag: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Flag_of_Yugra.svg/2000px-Flag_of_Yugra.svg.png

Position in Russia: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Khanty-Mansi_in_Russia.svg/1200px-Khanty-Mansi_in_Russia.svg.png

Hopefully Duo will add just one of them, because – I guess you’ve figured it out - they’re almost extinct… So, we can say they’re endangered.

What do you think? Would you like to see one of those in Duo? Which one?

THX,

IvritMiron12

P.S.: If sb has some time, would he/she make a golden owl from the Region's flag, 'couse I think it's pretty awsome ;)

September 13, 2017

15 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zerr_

The major languages related to Hungarian are Finnish, Karelian, and Estonian, though they're about as close to Hungarian as Icelandic is to Hindi.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/konrad33

That's not true at all. There are tons of similarities between Hungarian and the finno-uralic languages. They're are agglutinative, they have certain grammatical features in common(like lack of almost all prepositions which is compensated for by numerous grammatical cases and a similar way of "word building" etc. & also by the vowel harmony.). In fact some of the most basic words in the languages are extremely similar. For example the numbers 1,2,3,4,5: Finnish: yksi kaksi kolme neljä viisi kuusi. Hungarian: egy kettö három négy öt hat. The thing that makes them seem so different is that hungarian was strongly influenced by turkish and also lightly by russian/polish. But the similarities are certainly there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zerr_

Think you misunderstood me - Icelandic and Hindi are related, though distantly, just like Hungarian and Finnish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/konrad33

What? I tried to research the similarities between icelandic and hindi but i couldn't find anything other than a few words that were similar, but all of those were words from other languages such as hotel, telephone etc. Could You explain what You mean by them being related?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zerr_

Languages that are related are considered related because they came from the same language. Icelandic and Hindi both come from a language called Proto-Indo-European, just as the Uralic languages come from Proto-Uralic.

Icelandic and Hindi are related, but very distantly. Likewise, Hungarian and Finnish are related, but very distantly.

Whether or not they share history doesn't make them more or less related - Austria and Hungary were the same country at one point, but German and Hungarian became no more related during that time, since that's just as impossible as you growing fur just because you spend a lot of time with your cat.

My point was that the distance between Finnish and Hungarian is great enough that knowing one wouldn't necessarily make you better at learning the other beyond recognizing some similar words and features.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Multi0Lingual4

What Zerr_ means is that they're both from the same family tree, Indo-European. Of course they share similarities, but besides those, they're really not that close. Finnish/Estonian and Hungarian have evolved over time to become very, very dissimilar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/konrad33

That's still a false equivalence because the finno-ugric languages are way closer gramatically to eachother and share way more history than icelandic and hindi.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JensBu

Very interesting, thanks! Unfortunately most of the Finno-Ugric (Also Uralic in a wider sense) languages are endangered. Only the two major languages are strong. I've been reading and thinking about how to save languages since a while.

There are some projects where you can adopt words but for many I doubt they are any help.

http://www.notimpossible.com/blog/saving-endangered-languages-with-facebook-and-apps

I think it helps a lot if there are for example Android and iOS keyboards and apps to save languages. If let's say the script can't even be typed on phone or computer, people won't use it much anymore. Also voice recognition software is growing in many languages but speakers of smaller languages will have to rely e.g. on English or, in this case, Hungarian or Russian if they are spoken on Russian territory.

Any of these two languages would be a great addition to Duolingo. But since we have to choose there are several points to take into account. We should discuss and collect them.

I'm not sure if we should just pick the larger and more vivid language because the chances to save it are higher. What is your opinion?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JensBu

And for foreign language learners it is important to bring them together with native speakers. They should build their friendship in the language they want to save.

We could ask for example HelloTalk for adding any of these languages.

If native speakers are not interested in saving it we must analyse why. For example if there are no technological possibilities or no media in these languages we must start there instead of telling them to go on using it. That would also attract more learners.

I suppose they already have a strong national identity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/belstar128

Shame those languages are almost extinct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lemniscatarum

Khanty has 10,000 speakers and Mansi 900. Not many people speaking those languages indeed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Woof.

That's awful. Only 900!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/imira13

H-Ural - The Crow Song (Khanty) This rock group performs in Khanty and Mansi.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/williamliao238

I would like to have both on Duolingo :)

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