https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.

How many words does each different tree have?

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I was curious because I saw a post where a completed and golden Portuguese from English tree had 2800+ words, whereas mine (which is the Portuguese from Spanish course) has 3087 words at the moment. This is the stats of my only finished tree, please follow the same format and comment all you want:

Portuguese from Spanish, finished: yes, golden: yes(*), level: 14, words: 3087

(*) It's ok to put "golden: yes" if you managed to keep the tree golden at least once in an advanced state or with the course completed.

If you are very advanced in a course, please post also your stats, as you may have more words than someone that has finished a tree in no time, but has neglected the golden status.

9/13/2017, 6:24:18 PM

43 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/FieryCat
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I just wrote a small script and checked the finished trees available to me:

  • Hebrew vocabulary size is 2676
  • Romanian vocabulary size is 2342
  • Swedish vocabulary size is 2228
  • German vocabulary size is 2126
  • Danish vocabulary size is 2120
  • Russian vocabulary size is 2109
  • Welsh vocabulary size is 2051
  • Greek vocabulary size is 1949
  • Portuguese vocabulary size is 1942
  • French vocabulary size is 1913
  • Esperanto vocabulary size is 1829
  • Italian vocabulary size is 1791
  • Polish vocabulary size is 1769
  • Irish vocabulary size is 1644
  • Spanish vocabulary size is 1588
  • Turkish vocabulary size is 1393
  • Ukrainian vocabulary size is 1086
9/13/2017, 7:35:59 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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3428 lexemes has the new Norwegian course (Tree 3.0). This is mind-blowing! :O

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/24452086

9/15/2017, 3:30:43 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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You might find interesting this post I have just published in the Duolingo forum:

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/24527279

9/20/2017, 4:12:34 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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Wow, that's an awesome work, thanks a lot!!!! I am looking forward to finishing a course from English and see if I can go beyond your "magical" numbers! :-)

9/13/2017, 7:51:37 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/FieryCat
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Keep in mind, I got these "magical" numbers not from the tab "Words", I got them using GET request to the server. This is an example for your account: https://www.duolingo.com/vocabularies/size?user_id=24953571

9/13/2017, 8:07:45 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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Aha, then I think this number of words from the server, actually it's the total number of stem-words of the course (in contrast of what I get from the tab WORDS, which is "number of learned words so far"). I mean, if I've studied from Portuguese: "falo", "fala", "falei", "falou", instead of 4 learned words, the server would count them as only 1 stem-word, because they are all forms of the verb "falar". So this would explain why you get 1900+ words, and I get 3000+ words. In a nutshell, this would be different ways of counting words, and the server response would be closer to reality...

9/13/2017, 8:44:17 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/FieryCat
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Yes, I think the same way too.

9/13/2017, 8:51:57 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/FieryCat
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I just thought that maybe this discussion can be useful to you (Russian): https://www.duolingo.com/comment/19920001$comment_id=20410499

9/13/2017, 11:58:40 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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Thanks for the link! I think that for Russian, a highly inflected language, it's natural that the difference between the number of "learned words" and the number of "official words" (stem-words?) is so high, compared with other courses.

I keep thinking about the mystery of the hidden words. My main doubt would be now: if you finish a tree, have you see ALL the stem words? Maybe when I keep adding "learned words", I am only viewing new forms of already studied words. And I'd also like to know how Duolingo selects the exercises when you do strengthening. My main hypothesis, it's that you have a set of possible exercises and you get a random subset of them. However, maybe the algorithm is more complicated, and the already learned words are prioritized, which would do more difficult to uncover the "hidden words".

9/14/2017, 6:33:35 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3
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I think the hypothesis about the comparison between Portuguese and Russian is a good one. However, it doesn't explain why the Catalan Words total to lexeme count is actually higher than that for Russian (and this is just my Catalan Words count, and I haven't done the Catalan tree anywhere close to as thoroughly as Portuguese or Russian).

Words total; lexeme total; ratio

  • Portuguese: 2742 vs. 1943; 1.41
  • Russian: 3390 vs. 2109; 1.61
  • Catalan: 2997 vs. 1795; 1.67
  • Guaraní: 3512 vs. 1579; 2.22

I included Guaraní just for interest and b/c it's another tree where I've presumably gotten the Words count about as high as it can go.

Yes, I think when you've finished the tree you've seen all the lexemes (a difference of one for Portuguese seems to be the exception that proves the rule more than anything; all my other counts matched FieryCat's) and that when the Word count continues to increase it is b/c you've come across a new form of an already-learned lexeme.

9/14/2017, 7:25:19 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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Maybe the in the Russian Course it's really difficult to learn the declensions, because there are too few examples of the different lexemes (stem-words).

Anyway, I am going to strength my whole Portuguese from Spain tree, as I am really curious to know if I can get new lexemes (instead of only new learned words)

9/14/2017, 10:51:25 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/FieryCat
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It seems as if you are right. There are some oddities in calculating all these words. I asked my script to count the words in tree other ways. This is the Portuguese course from English:

  • Vocabulary size from the server: 1942
  • Counted words from the course's lessons: 2818
  • From the tab "Words": 3556
  • From the tab "Words" without duplicates: 3457 o_O
9/14/2017, 12:21:38 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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This is bad news, maybe I am only adding duplicates to my Words tabs from strengthening!!

Anyway, I made the first skill in French and this what I get: 29 learned words and 22 lexems. I ordered these words, so I got an idea what's considered a lexem:

1) riche

2) calme

3) rouge

4) noir

5) et

6) l', la, le

7) une, un

8) elle, il

9) tu

10) je

11) enfant

12) robe

13) femme

14) orange

15) chat

16) fille

17) pomme

18) garçon

19) homme

20) es, suis, est

21) a

22) mange, manges

9/14/2017, 2:51:34 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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I've just made the Count, and from 3091 learned words, I have 69 duplicates (as a curiosity this is exactly the number of skills that my Portuguese from Spanish tree has)

9/14/2017, 3:42:42 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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No, looking better the Words tabs, in general there are NO duplicates. There are homonyms, and words that are used in different parts of speech, so there are repeated lines for them. Por example, in Spanish "como" can be either a verb or a conjunction.

9/16/2017, 12:11:31 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/garpike
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Using that trick, you can add to your list:

Norwegian (Bokmål): 3155 (v2, not v3, which is currently being A/B-tested, but not by me...)

Dutch: 1935 (v1, not v2, which is also currently being A/B-tested)

Guarani (Jopará): 1579

9/14/2017, 5:21:05 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3
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Assuming I understand the trick correctly:

  • Catalan - 1795
  • Japanese - 1090
  • Swahili - 1205
  • Italian from French - 1791 (same as from English it looks like; perhaps not so surprising as they have the same number of lessons as well, 405)

And I get 1943 for Portuguese from English

9/14/2017, 6:08:45 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/garpike
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I didn't check any of the languages that FieryCat had already posted, but I, too, get 1942 for Portuguese; I wonder what your special, bonus word is...
(In fact, I presume bonus skills would make a difference to these numbers, too.)

I'm surprised that Japanese has more words than Ukrainian. It looks so awfully short.

9/14/2017, 6:44:45 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3
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I suspect that the Japanese course winds up having every individual hiragana and katakana character as a separate lexeme, as well as the 100-odd kanji taught, which could be giving it something like a couple hundred lexeme boost. The Greek course is probably also getting such a boost, obviously on a smaller scale, owing to the way it introduces the alphabet.

And you seem to be right about the bonus skills, I just did my heretofore uncompleted Holidays bonus skill for Ukrainian, and now the word count is 1095 (like FieryCat's it had been 1086 before).

9/14/2017, 6:51:54 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3
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So interesting, thank you! What would you need to be able to access the figures for other trees?

9/14/2017, 3:22:13 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/FieryCat
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I have an separate account for such cases, and this account has all these finished trees from this list. So I need full access to the account which has the finished tree. Everyone can get this information. I mentioned this way here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/24435667$comment_id=24436819 But it needs to know the account id.

9/14/2017, 11:43:09 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/MaiaPatata
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Italian from English, finished: yes, golden: no, level 15, words: 2513

9/13/2017, 6:38:25 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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Thank you very much. I am going to begin the Italian from Spanish (or maybe from English) very soon :)

9/13/2017, 6:59:26 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/MaiaPatata
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You're welcome and good luck with Italian :-)

9/14/2017, 2:51:07 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/ally.x
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German from English, finished: yes, golden: yes, level: 24, words: 2628

9/13/2017, 6:40:03 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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Many thanks!! This is a very intimidating tree for me, as mate learners say it's veeery long. However I have a moral debt to begin it seriously, as my mother is German and I have only a basic level in German!! :)

9/13/2017, 7:03:25 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/ally.x
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German tree is long but if you have some idea about the language it's not so hard. For me the French tree is the intimidating one since French is more alien (should I say "unusual") language for me. But you know what they say: "step by step" :-)

9/13/2017, 7:16:11 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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This is reassuring for me, as I know all the basic grammar quite well. My biggest problems are word order, and separable verbs. As my mother says, you have to wait until the end of a sentence to get the most important of what you're saying... And too often, I get lost too soon!! :D

Regarding French, my main difficulty is pronunciation, since French grammar is quite similar to my native Spanish.

9/13/2017, 7:26:57 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Woof.
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You can still see the amount of words on the words list even if all your skills aren't golden as long as you have finished the tree.

9/13/2017, 6:27:13 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Thomas_Wesley
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I had finished the French tree despite not having seen all of the words, so I don't think that's true.

9/13/2017, 6:34:46 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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I don't understand you. As far as I know, you can only see the words you have learned if the course has the tab "Words". For example, I have my German tree with only 18 words!! I don't think that there are courses that have the tab "words" only if you finish it or manage to make your tree golden. Please, correct me if I am in an error.

On the other hand, there's a script to know the hidden strength of your skills. Maybe this tells you the total words or something like that, but unfortunately I didn't manage to install it.

9/13/2017, 6:39:53 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Woof.
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No, that's not at all what I meant. I meant that by viewing the words list you can see how many words you have learned, and when you finish the tree, you can see all the words that there are in the course, and it can tell you the number of words you have learned.

9/13/2017, 6:45:02 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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And once finished a tree, could you tell me how I can see ALL the words that have a course?? I don't see that number anywhere... :-/

9/13/2017, 6:50:26 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Woof.
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It should be on the top of the page.

9/13/2017, 6:59:02 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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OK, on the top of the page I can only see, literally:

Palabras que has aprendido en portugués 3087 Palabras

Maybe the "Portuguese from English" course is different. Anyway, I'm planning to do it soon, to review my Portuguese and a little of English.

9/13/2017, 7:08:25 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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What I mean, the words of a course are the ones:

-from the lessons

-NEW ones from strengthening!!!

So little by little I'm adding new words from the strengthening, even though I've finished the course a days ago. And so far, I can't know how many words or expressions are still for me to learn.

9/13/2017, 6:56:49 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Woof.
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Well, you really could've been more specific. That's really not what I thought you meant.

9/13/2017, 6:59:35 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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Maybe I should have explained more the story of the "hidden words". No worries and thanks for the conversation! :)

9/13/2017, 7:10:45 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Thomas_Wesley
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I'm at 3000 words for French from English...

9/13/2017, 6:35:00 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/CarlosLM.
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Thanks, I'm planning to take the French course as well, but I'll wait until I finish Italian! ;)

9/13/2017, 7:12:47 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/pastorsteve99

Spanish level 25, 74149xp, 4102 words currently. I've completed almost the entire tree to the third crown. I've been finding some new words, but mostly it is repetition. I wish that there were more vocabulary words added in each crown level. Duo is a fun tool but that's my one complaint.

8/20/2018, 5:21:56 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3
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I assume that's the number from your Words tab? That includes different forms of the same word (e.g. conjugations) separately. That figure isn't directly comparable to what's being discussed in this thread.

8/20/2018, 5:37:18 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/nigra
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Are you practicing spanish with any other methods? Do you live in a spanish speaking location or practice with native speakers? I'm interested to hear about what you consider your spanish fluency level to be from spending so much time on duolingo

10/6/2018, 1:10:55 AM
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