"Die Sonne hat manche schwarze Punkte."

Translation:The sun has some black spots.

March 12, 2013

16 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Biomax

maybe I am wrong but it should not be "...manche schwarzeN Punkte."?

April 10, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/myra

Everybody wins. Both "schwarze" and "schwarzen" are fine here :)

April 23, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Hohenems

Not a German native, but I believe you are correct.

Seems like it should be "schwarzen". I'm doing the lesson right now, so I'll report it.
Nice catch!

Edit: I deleted most of my comment because it gave out inaccurate information and I wouldn't want anyone to use it.

April 22, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/wataya

Sorry, but duo's version is the right one ;-) When inflecting adjectives, 'manche' qualifies as an article (German nomenclature: Indefinitpronomen) ;-) http://www.nthuleen.com/teach/grammar/adjektivendungenexpl.html (see common problem 2). This one was a bit unfair, I agree ;-)

April 22, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Biomax

thanks for your reply wataya I read the page you linked but I still do not get it. If manche qualifies as an article the adjective that follows is supposed to follow the weak inflection and that means its ending should be -en. If I am correct there is only one possibility for an accusative plural adjective to have the -e ending: that is the strong inflection. Where is my mistake?

April 22, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Hohenems

I just got really confused. In my first post I agreed with you that it should be "schwarzen", but I listed reasons why it should in fact be "schwarze". -1 point for Hohenems.

Then after wataya pointed out that manche is a "der" word and that Duo's "schwarze" was right, I agreed. -2 points for Hohenems.

Now that you've re-asked the question, I'm agreeing with you again. Manche = der word, accusative case, plural noun = -en ending.

I wonder if I'll get a point back or if wataya will come and squash it and I'll be at -3 points.

April 22, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/wataya

OK, christian just answered my question on my stream. As he'd say 'hat manche schwarzen Punkte' and as he doesn't have any objections against 'hat manche schwarze Punkte', I think we should settle it according to what canoo.net says which looks very reasonable

  • in singular: use weak adjective inflection with the inflected 'manch...' forms

  • in plural: both weak and strong inflection are fine

  • adjectives after the uninflected form of 'manch' are always inflected according to strong declension

So, you can stick to the rules you learned and I can stick to my Sprachgefühl. Happy outcome ;-)

April 23, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/wataya

These are very good and valid points. The matter is even more complicated than I thought and wrote above. As I said, German declension is an abyss: http://www.canoo.net/services/OnlineGrammar/Wort/Adjektiv/Deklinationstyp/Schwankend.html

I knocked on christian's door and I hope he'll contribute his opinion. It may well be that both 'schwarze' and 'schwarzen' are ok to use. My personal Sprachgefühl still tends strongly towards 'schwarze' but this might be a regional thing.

@Hohenems (and max): very clear and thoughtful observations. That's a +5!

Waiting for further input from other native speakers...

April 23, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Soglio

I'm confused too. I think I just won't talk about black spots on the sun until you get it sorted out and explain it to me.

April 23, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Hohenems

This thread is out of control now. Thanks wataya (and Christian, and canoo.net). I think this will be a lesson well learned and I won't forget it any time soon!

April 23, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Hohenems

Nooo! I reported it. :(
Now I'll look quite the buffoon.
Thanks for the info and the link! I'll wait to report next time.

April 22, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/wataya

German declension is an abyss. You can always go deeper ;-)

April 22, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Hohenems

And deeper I will go. It is even listed in one of my go to sources (the same page I linked up ^ there) as a "der word".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_declension#Definite_articles.5B1.5D
Blarg.

April 22, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Lynoure

Why not "many"?

March 25, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Soglio

That would be "viele."

March 28, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Biomax

Thanks wataya and Christian. that clears up all doubts.

April 23, 2013
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