"They are wives."

Translation:Loro sono mogli.

March 12, 2013

67 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YamelaineG

Mogli like the kid from the jungle book


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chasimir

:-) Won't forget the plural of "moglie" anymore... Thank you for this beautiful mnemonic!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MorlandLaura

So Mowgli is known as Mogli in German?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dafadllyn

Yes, he's called Mogli in German. (However the pronunciation is not the same: gl is pronounced as two consonant sounds /gl/ in German but as one consonant sound /ʎ/ in Italian.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lavmarx

Is "mogli" a masculine word? Or the plural form is "mogli" but it still takes the feminine article "le mogli"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/federico.m48

Singular is "la moglie", plural is "le mogli". It's always feminine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ehopda

Do they sound the same?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 3123

No. One is "lah mo-lee-eh" and the other is "leh mo-lee".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elon_the_Hittite

Lah mo-lee-eh would be 'la molie' (if that exists), and leh mo-lee would be 'le moli'. You need a liquid 'l' sound, giving "lah mol'y-eh" and "leh mol'yee".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ourakoz

Until I got to the family module I was thinking that Italian was globally rational and logical compared to other languages aaaaand here comes things like this "la moglie" and "le mogli" :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 3123

I was thinking that Italian was globally rational and logical

That's not how language works. Language is a natural phenomenon. Rationality and logic have nothing to do with it. Some languages are more regular than others, but no natural language is perfectly regular.

Yes, for the most part, native Italian nouns tend to follow the pattern
MASCULINE
-o singular
-i plural
FEMININE
-a singular
-e plural

But as you have discovered, this is not always the case. Sometimes nouns will be
-e singular
-i plural
and you need to memorize on a case-by-case basis whether they are masculine or feminine.

Foreign loan words often end with different sounds (often consonants) and tend to be masculine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elon_the_Hittite

Italian has taken the '-us' ending of a good many masculine Latin nouns (nominative case), replacing it with '-o' in the singular, but kept the '-i' ending of these nouns in the plural. Likewise, it has kept the '-a' ending of many feminine nouns in the singular, and deleted the 'a' from the '-ae' ending of these nouns in the plural. It has also scrapped the neuter gender but subsumed most of these nouns into the masculine gender.

This is somewhat of an over-simplification, but basically correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 3123

Pretty much, yes. I wouldn't say the endings got "replaced", though. Sound change over the centuries turned the "us" sound (at least terminally) into the "o" sound, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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thedodosaurus

Thanks for that catch of nominative vs accusative. It was still a gradual development vs outright replacement, though, and that was my primary point.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duncan_whyte

Actually, the accusative became the standard form in Romance languages. The 'm' in all um (by this time -om), am, em forms became nasal (õ, ã, ~e) and then o, a, e.

However, confusingly, the nominative was taken in the plural (ae>e, ī>i, es got replaced by ī>i).

Wikipedia has a great explanation, step by step:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgar_Latin


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alex_uwu

Duo said gay rights


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duojoep

Does this mean they are married to each other? Or rather that two or more women are married to unspecified third persons? It seems an odd sentence - like saying "they are uncles" of unrelated men.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dosAidos

I just interpreted it as they are married to each other.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leandra959477

You do know that lesbians exist, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marziotta

I can imagine it as a category. Like "Loro sono mogli" because they behave like wives, more than women, more than mothers, more than whatever other "women category".

It sounds a bit strange, but that's the best interpretation I have.

Anyway, if you find sentences whose context is unclear, it could be worth reporting it to Duolingo, but I don't think they will change their data base. Maybe you can suggest a similar pair "English sentence-Italian sentence" which makes more sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rainfalls

It can be a pro-gay wedding sentence!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RalphLar

Could be lesbians


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duojoep

Thanks for your reply, Marziotta! I don't particularly mind the odd sentences you get every now and again, in fact such destabilization of the common sense effectively undermines auto-pilot translation. Good to know this is not Italian idiom, though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ursu_Brun

Actually it can mean either of the following three: they are plain wives (each married to someone else), they are wives of each other, or they are all the wives of the same Muslim man (that is allowed four of them, although I pity him when it comes to mothers-in-law). In amy case, they are wives, mogli.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leigh8724

Why is the article omitted before "mogli"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/friswing

Because they are unspecified, they are just 'wives', nothing defines them more than that. For instance, we have not been told who they are wives to, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ripcurlgirl

I was wondering this too. Grazie per il chiarimento!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Douglas381466

I just read minutes ago on another posting that "loro" takes the article. SO, why not "Loro sono le mogli?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 3123

There might be some confusion because "loro" is both the personal and the possessive form. Only the possessive form would ever take "the" -- il loro x; i loro x; la loro x; le loro x. Loro as the subject of the sentence has nothing to do with whether a separate noun phrase would take "the" or not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 3123

Could you link to that discussion? I'm pretty sure there's context you're overlooking.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GidiZisk

I think you are referring to the discussion where you don't omit "the" with family member, "If you use loro (la loro madre, i loro fratelli...).". Notice that refer to belonging -> la loro madre. This is not the case here


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 3123

Because despite the word endings, la moglie/le mogli is feminine. It's one of those irregular nouns.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichielHag

Why can't I leave 'loro' behind? Sono moglie is wrong according to Duolingo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 3123

The subject pronoun is optional in Italian. But "wives" is "mogli", not "moglie". It's irregular.

la moglie (singular)
le mogli (plural)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anne762932

Why is-sono mogli- not okay?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fmcandrew

Why does moglie not remain moglie in the plural?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 3123

It's one of those irregular nouns.
la moglie
le mogli


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gianduiotto75

Well, not really irregular. Nouns ending with -e when singular end in -i when plural, whether they are masculine or feminine :

"il fiore, i fiori*

la notte, le notti, la fine, le fini, la madre, le madri...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 3123

Yes, that's what makes them irregular. They don't follow the -o/-i; -a/-e pattern.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anne609994

seems strange that wives should have a masculine plural ending ie "i"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 3123

It's true that most of the time, this pattern holds:

-o masculine singular
-i masculine plural
-a feminine singular
-e feminine plural

But some nouns are irregular. They are -e in the singular and -i in the plural and you need to memorize each individually whether they are masculine or feminine. This is the case here:

la moglie (singular)
le mogli (plural)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/moxVFz

I thought wives was mobile from yesterday but today it says mogli


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 3123

"Mobile" is "furniture". It's cognate with the English word "mobile", which means "movable". It would help if you could tell us what sentence you're thinking of.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BoTreasure

Why is " sono i mogli " incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 3123

Because "mogli" is feminine and "i" is masculine.
la moglie
le mogli

Rules for the definite article:


https://i.imgur.com/aJ7Qlgb.jpg

Rules for the indefinite article:

Masculine

https://i.imgur.com/ioiRcSS.png

Feminine

https://i.imgur.com/7WZMfoO.png


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BoTreasure

Why is " sono i mogli" incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 3123

It would need to be "Sono le mogli" since it's a feminine noun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uxSY4nUr

sposa (plural spose) means bride rather than wife.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anne108780

My dictionary says moglie is plural too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaTurn

I thought as its plural, it would be 'le mogli'. Can anyone help?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/friswing

It is plural, but no definite article is needed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DianeAinNH

Why is "Loro sono spose" incorrect? Doesn't "sposa" mean "wife"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uxSY4nUr

Italian sposa means bride, whereas French épouse means wife, Austrian Gspusi means lover, and Latin sposa means fiancée.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vero538936

I like Thi-fcr's answer. Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/popemaria

I put Sono Moglie but it required Loro sono moglie - ok Sono is I am or they are but it wouldn't make sense to say I am in this case so it should be accepted without Loro.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidJones764239

Why not "Loro sono i mogli" ? Is this a collective noun ?

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