"이분의 성함은 어떻게 되세요?"

Translation:What is this gentleman's name?

September 18, 2017

40 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/raemation

Could you say 'this person' in place of 'this lady'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wintertriangles

You'd think so, as 분 is not gendered, but since it happens to be the formal version of person, the English equivalent is lady or gentleman.

You'll hear 분 every time you go to a restaurant. 몇 분이세요? - How many people are there?

The confusing part is you can't answer with 분, because you're talking about yourself! 두 명이에요. - There are two people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knoebel_Joseph

I would love to see your reference... 분 means person. Here is a dictionary: http://endic.naver.com/krenEntry.nhn?sLn=en&entryId=f4687e3816e74df09a8a029cb8f234c0&query=%EB%B6%84

신사 and 신부 mean 'gentleman' and 'lady' respectively. FUN FACT ALTERT: 신부 also means (catholic) priest.

분 is more respectful than 사람. The usage is situational, and culturally, some people "always" deserve respect like an old lady or the president of a company.

If you use the word 사람 instead of 분, it means you believe that person doesn't demand respect in the current situation. If you work with someone you grew up with, but they are in a higher position than you, you would use each word situationally. In front of work colleagues or at the office, 분, and in front of childhood friends or over a beer, 사람 or maybe even 애.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wintertriangles

Uh huh..nothing you said disagrees with my comment, so I don't know why you're trying to teach me something.

If you mean that I wasn't hyper specific about using 신사 and 신부, that's because it's quite rare to hear them and considering this is a beginner course, why would I ever mention them?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Emil261

If you are in the restaurant with, say your boss, wouldn't you refer formaly to him/her?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

Roughly,

• if by 'him/her' you mean the boss, you would need to add his/her title role.

우리 사장님의 성함은 어떻게 되세요? What is our boss's name?

•if by 'him/her' you mean an unidentified guest to the party (of a certain status whether in age or in social role)

이분*의 성함은 어떻게 되세요? What is this gentleperson's name? (분, respectful way to refer to a person = gentleman or lady)

*이분/ 그분/ 저분 referential distance depending on the Speaker's (physical or psychological) perception.

•if by 'him/her' you mean some unidentified person in the group, of status perceived to be equal or lower than the listener's status.

이 젊은이의 이름은 무엇이에요? What is this young person's name? (젊은이 = youth)

Note: 의 is often left out, especially in speech.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pamela909830

I typed "What is this person's name?" It was correct. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/actuallySIG

Can someone elaborate on the use of 되세요?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

• Formality verb ending: -세요, please.

세요 is a variation of 셔요 (시다, propositive mode, casual & polite form). It is officially recognized and standardised in 1985.

• 이다 vs 되다

이다 - be (equivalent/equal to)

되다 is an impersonal verb (one with no determinate subject which appears usually in the gear of "It" or "There").

되다 has many meanings. But in this particular example, 되다 = It is to be.

되다 is slightly different to 이다 in that it shows the naming as a process. 이다 states the fact.

So:

이 분의 성함은 어떻게 되세요?

= Lit. "As to this (gentle)person's good name, what may it be?"

= What is this person's good name?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pinkjooni

just leaving my humble onion that gentleman/lady as 분 it's a bit of an awkward localization and "person" should be an accepted input. Gentleman is not as natural in english as 분 is in korean, and person is not necessarily an "impolite" word, as much as house, sleep or eat.

not that serious i'm just annoyed i got set back by this like three times lmao


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jweg61

So we have 3 honorifics in this sentence:

분 instead of 명 성함 instead of 이름 되세 instead of 있어


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

Correct.

(1) "분" is the honorific of person (noun), 사람 and person (counter), 명.

(2) 성함, honorific of 이름 - name or full name. (Note: 성 = family name/surname; 함 = title i.e. what you may be identified with as an individual; hence, your occupation; first name; nickname etc.)

(3) 되시다, honorific of 되다. In this instance, its equivalent meaning in English is "may it be", polite copula "may"

(3) Honorific, polite speech.

성함이 어떻게 되세요 (/*되셔요)? = What may your 'good' name be? [-> How may I call you?]

*되셔요 still in use in North Korea.

Casual, polite speech.

이름이 어떻게 돼요? = 이름이 뭐에요?* = What's your name? [-> How should I call you?]

*이름이 뭐에요?, more commonly used expression.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pamela909830

분 instead of 사람. Actually 되다 is not honorific. It means "to become." It is used frequently in polite mood.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

Should use: 'gentleperson' if wish to stress "분" being the honorific form of "사람" (person).

Of course there are specific words for gentleman and lady as shown in the expression: 신사 숙녀 여러분 ~ ladies and gentlemen

신사- gentleman

숙녀- lady


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GeraldMath4

I thought to use "gentleman," but then it seemed it might be a lady, so went (acceptably) with "person" instead.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pQpQrOPY

good choice; this site can be a bit picky at times.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ilyaakov

Why is 어떻게 used here? Does the sentence literally mean "how does it become" which also means "what is it"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

It is a set polite expression. It comes from the pattern:

Verb-게 되다 = end up + Verb-ing

어떻다 = (be) in what state? = being what?

어떻게 되다 = end up being what?

어떻게 됐다 = It ended up being what? => what would it be?

어떻게 되세요? = It ends up being what? => what may it be?

So: 이분의 성함은 어떻게 되세요?

= Speaking of this person's good name, what may it be?

= What may this person's good name be?

• Less formal expressions

이 사람의 이름이 어떻게 돼요? or

이 사람의 이름이 뭐에요?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GeraldMath4

I think that's about right. "How does his name turn out (like, if someone were to say it)?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SabianF

Why is this "gentleman", when 분 is genderless


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pQpQrOPY

Is "what is this person's name" also be an accurate translation (honorific form)? How would you say "what is this woman's name" in honorific form?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pamela909830

I typed, "What is this person's name?" It is correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SUGA_MY_LOVE

How will you know if they're talking about a lady or a gentleman


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pamela909830

only by context. My friend took me to a pharmacy my first year in Korea and talked to the pharmacist about me by saying, "이분이...." I am a woman. Our friend could have used the same word to talk about my husband.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skye-mist

Why isnt ileum used for name?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aguilreb

Cause that's informal. The one word used here for "name" is formal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Crrct_my_Eng_thx

I think "this person (or other genderless words)" is better than "this gentleman" in the translation sentence. Because it's sexism, and we could think about this issue more deeply as someone who learns language(s). ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maz1269

there is no issue. it's just a translation. "lady" would be just as fine


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JuliaKaton2

Person would still be a better choice, even if it is not the equivalent politeness level in English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ayaszki

i'm really confused


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

어떻게 돼요 & 뭐예요 are equally polite and stand for 'What is it'. 어떻게 돼요 just adds an extra layer of courtesy to the sentence.

뭐예요 = what is it? (Literally)

어떻게 돼요 = how should it be known ? => what is it ? (By implication)

Similarly,

Person: 분 (courteous) vs 사람 (polite)

Name: 성함 (courteous, honorific) vs 이름 (polite, neutral)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pamela909830

Specifically, why are you confused? The expression 이분의 is a formal way to say "this person's." 성함은 is an honorific way to say "name." 어떻게 means "how." 되세요 means "become." Literally, the words say, "How does this person's name become?" But just memorize this as a respectful and formal way to ask, "What is this person's name?" :) Not everything can be word-for-word translated from one language to another. Don't panic. Just tell yourself, "This is one way of saying it."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aprilmorales_

어떻게 is how right? Then why is it translated into 'what'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GeraldMath4

Because "How does this person's name turn out?" doesn't make sense in English. We would say "What is this person's name."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2mountain9

I am also asking why is the translation is only accepting 'this gentleman'. I understand it to mean, this gentleman, this lady, he, she. Why not this person, although person is 'salam' the meaning is correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaevaDissa

Can someone break it for me ? I still don't get it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GeraldMath4

Sort of odd when "broken." 이 this 분 respected person 의 's 성함 honored name 은 (topic marker) 어떻게 how 되- turn out -세요 (polite sentence ending)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/qZZg348184

레이디랑 젠틀맨 둘다 보기로 주고서 이 분이라고 하면 둘 중 누군지 내가 어떻게 알아!! 이 분은 성별이 없는 지칭명사라고!!

Learn Korean in just 5 minutes a day. For free.