1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: French
  4. >
  5. "Il vient avec ses enfants et…

"Il vient avec ses enfants et nous avec les nôtres."

Translation:He comes with his children and we with ours.

September 25, 2017

39 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnnyp27

correct translation ? he comes with his children and us with ours ?? surely ??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/klopsteins

"He comes with his children and us with ours" is correct english. If you want to use "we" then I think you need to repeat the verb "come". ie "we come with ours". "us" should be accepted as correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/msinykin

Are you sure this is correct English? It sounds wrong to me, and seems to be using an object pronoun ("us") as a subject pronoun ("we").

"nous" is the subject of the verb "vient" (come), which apparently doesn't need to be repeated in French (also true in English). Seems like using "us" would only make sense for something like "He comes with his children and us" (where the object is "his children and us").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ieXEZn2E

And yet msinykin, I would also say "and us with ours", or "and we come with ours". Maybe "we with ours" is grammatically correct, but the former would be unusual in my part of the UK :) It's like "you and I" as opposed to "you and me", potatoes tomatoes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThomsonJames

Msinykin, In UK English "we" is the subject of a sentence and "us" is the object. So "we" needs an verb to make sense not a preposition, we sing, we dance, we drink, we enjoy etc. So "and WE COME with ours" is how this makes any sense to a UK English speaker and NOT "WE WITH ours". Horses for courses, so you maybe like the French English version but I don't. IT's a French learning course, so why am I being force fed bad English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

"He comes with his children and we with ours" simply isn't "bad English." It's ellipsis.

You're right. It's a French learning course. The English is correct. Its structure is like the French, so it helps teach the French, which is the point.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/msinykin

I agree that it is ellipses: in both French and English there is no need to repeat the verb ("venir" / "come"). So your sentence is perfect and matches Duo's preferred answer.

But the question in this thread is whether "He comes with his children and us with ours" should be accepted. That is, can "nous" be translated either as "we" (subject) or "us" (object) in this sentence. And although it is fairly common in English to use an object pronoun as a subject pronoun, it is not grammatically correct and so I don't expect Duo to accept it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/msinykin

I think the verb is "vient" for both subjects "il" and "nous"; and just like in English it doesn't have to be repeated as "Il vient avec ses enfants et nous venons avec les nôtres." -> "He comes with his children and we come with ours."

As @piguy3 says, this is "ellipses": you can omit the second "come" so "we come with ours" elides to "we with ours".

The verb is "venir" / "come" is used intransitively (no object), and the objects of the two prepositions "avec" / "with" are "ses enfants" / "his children" and "les nôtres" / "ours".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tom719

NO, NO, NO! The second come is implied. It's correct without. FIX THIS NOW! Your bot scored me wrong without the 2nd come.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

I confirm that "come" is not required and if your full sentence was "he comes with his children and we with ours", you should be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DarthAlexus

I wrote 'He comes with his kids and we with ours" and it marked it wrong.. please fix this and thanks for your commitment, Sitesurf ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Please be aware that we do no longer accept "kids" to translate "enfants":

  • un enfant, des enfants = a child, children
  • a kid, kids = un gamin/une gamine, des gamin(e)s

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stick.to.it

Thank you for explaining that, Sitesurf. Like Darth, I was marked wrong for using "kids" -- but the explanation I was given for the error blamed the missing second "come". If I hadn't come here and seen your post I would have no idea that the fault lay in my use of the word "kids".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kenecxjo

Tom, moi aussi !!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SarahZhang777

I put "he comes with his kids and we come with ours" and it marked it wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SarahZhang777

And I put "he comes with her kids and we come with ours" and it's wrong again. But this sentence is what was suggested last time I got it wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Conventionally, the object belongs to the subject.

  • il vient avec ses enfants = he comes with his children
  • elle vient avec ses enfants = she comes with her children

If it were someone else's children, you would get:

  • il vient avec ses enfants à elle

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisaskier

Bonjour Sitesurf,

Please could you explain to me why it is incorrect to translate this sentence as :

"He is coming with his children and we with ours" ?

Merci beaucoup :]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Summerstor5

Merci, vous avez repondu mon question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

"Vous avez répondu à ma question."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

The verb is not repeated in French and it should not reappear in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fekkezaum

I disagree it shouldn't reappear in English.

The default translation "He comes with his children and we with ours" sounds pretty awkward. I'm not saying it's incorrect (I didn't check it) but it does sound odd and it shouldn't be the default from my point of view.

I think "He comes with his children and we come with ours" (which is accepted) should be the default.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

If that were the default, nobody would get the French sentence they're trying to teach when the translation goes from English to French.

"He comes with his children and we with ours" isn't awkward so much as formal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jabmdan

Going to comment again that "He comes with his children and us with ours" sounds far, far more correct in American English than "...we with ours". Please, please allow "us with ours" as a correct response.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Will756055

It's better in Northern English too! If it's the same across 2 dialects, it really should be fixed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Heartily disagree. It sounds incorrect and unnatural to this speaker of American English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/msinykin

So we seem to be in agreement here about "we" vs. "us", yet you seem to have contradicted me in the thread (currently at the top) started by @johnnyp27. I added more comments there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Not sure why you think so. I don't think I really addressed the "we" vs. "us" issue there at all. It wasn't the focus of the comment I replied to.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/msinykin

Perhaps I misinterpreted, but your reply was to someone who replied in disagreement to me about the sentence structure, and I think the confusion is about subject vs. object in this elided sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LorraineCh877878

in this session there is no time to reply to the audio


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

You might consider switching the sound off.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/crepe_obsession

"He comes with his children and US with ours" - As a native English speaker this is how I say it. It should be accepted even if it isn't prescriptively grammatical as it is in fact spoken English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ender0703

in american english "He comes with his children and us with ours" sounds much more natural than "we with ours" even though they both should be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/msinykin

I don't think "us" is correct English, although perhaps common. It is using an object pronoun for a subject. This is the same error as "Jim and me went to the store" vs. "Jim and I".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jason438600

What is the problem with "us" ??????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/msinykin

See my thoughts on the problem elsewhere in this discussion. Basically, "us" is an object pronoun, and it sounds wrong to me to use it as a subject pronoun (which would be "we").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jason438600

Ok. Thanks for your explanations. I understand now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rubvuta

I think "us"should be acceptable


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/msinykin

More discussion about this has been added about this. I agree that this usage is common, but it is grammatically incorrect English, and therefore I don't expect that Duo will accept it.

Learn French in just 5 minutes a day. For free.