Japanese tree completed (yay) what now?
I finished Japanese tree yesterday. What do I do now? I've finished the first part of the memrise Japanese course. I'm learning Japanese for understanding the culture better and language learning is my hobby. Thanks for your help in advance.
Congrats! You can always work on the Jpn-En tree! Also, there are a ton of Japanese courses in Memrise; many of them seem quite useful.
More important, now that you can crawl/walk, feel free to dive/immerse in the real Japanese world by reading/listening/writing/speaking the language. Hth, Daniel.
You would loose easily. I finished the Chn-En tree, without any prior Chinese training, simply because I did not want to wait for the En-Chn tree to come out and I really wanted to get a clue about the Chinese language. I consider that somewhat harder than doing Jpn-En after the En-Jpn tree; would you agree? I would add that you would need the proper supporting tools though (mostly a decent translator and/or dictionary along with other existing free tools). BTW, I did that for other trees but they were not as difficult as the Chn-En one and had some prior knowledge of the source language. Regards, Daniel.
I was about to post why I think you're wrong. However I realised that you're probably not talking about the website but rather the app. I imagine that's correct then, especially if additionally using tools like Google Translate, since there are only so many possible combinations of those blocks and multiple choice answers. ^^;
There isn't any Japanese typing on the Jpn→En course on the app (as far as I am aware). I imagine it should be quite possible to stumble through the entire tree without being required to know what's going on.
I completed the Jpn→En course on web long before I started the En→Jpn course. I can't imagine anyone could do the Jpn→En course on web solely "on the strength of the En-Jpn course alone", especially without having had any grammar notes on the En→Jpn course at all. The app is certainly a different matter though. ^^
Good question! I've not really thought much about that. I've done some kanji analysis of how many kanji are used in the En→Jpn course (here). Maybe I should try to do the same for the Jpn→En course too.
I've never had any Japanese classes nor taken any JLPT exams. So I don't really know what my own Japanese level is supposed to be. This makes it hard for me to gauge what to say to answer your question.
For the Jpn→En course, I had almost no problem with the range of kanji used. But the source sentences do contain even a few characters outside of the 2,136 common use kanji list! A couple of examples of this are 鴨 (かも) "duck" and 紐 (ひも) "string". It simply expects you to be able to read these.
Grammar is the main area I have trouble with—specifically composing whole sentences in Japanese. What makes it particularly hard in the Jpn→En course is that you're translating natural English sentences into a Japanese translation. Sometimes it wants very literal translations to prove you know the English. It can be quite picky about wanting それ to be translated as "it" and あれ as "that", for example. At first glance it can seem like a really simple English sentence, until you start thinking how on earth you actually say it in Japanese. Here's an example:
"We would have had children."
That sentence ends with verb~て + いた + だろう + に, lol.
However, I think a person who'd already completed the En→Jpn course on web wouldn't have too much further to go before being able to do the Jpn→En reverse tree on web. The main things they might need to learn is a bit more about conditional sentences, do some heavy kanji practice, and find a decent online dictionary to use. ^^
Sorry, this is kind of delayed - the Duolingo website wasn't accessible for some iOS users, me among them, for the last few days.
I still don't think Jpn-En is the way to go. I've tried it twice, and even with the first exercise, I had no idea what they wanted from me. (And I have completed the En-Jpn course to the point where the tree is pretty solidly golden.) Also, I don't want to switch back and forth between the app and Google Translate - that's just too convoluted for my taste. This has very little to do with the difference of app and website, btw; I even imagine the website might be even more frustrating. (I'm noticing that I usually choose to do my En-Jp practicing on the app - I find the website rather challenging.)
Also, looking at the example testmoogle gives, I just don't think trying to figure out sentences like that is something I want to do at this point.
Oh, and one word about Memrise: it all depends on what's on the flashcards. Me, I find single-word flashcards more or less useless - the fun starts when you try to build sentences.
So, my advice to the OP would be to find a real Japanese course. Hopefully, finishing the Duolingo course means that you can now read the Kana, know some words and maybe even have some basic understanding of some sentence structure. So now you put all this to work!
I agree with you, partially. Yes, this is not just a tree with the learning approach reversed; it’s more advanced and can be overwhelming, especially because it assumes advanced knowledge with Kanji. That’s why I think for a beginner, the next step should be to build a good Kanji knowledge base, after that one can try the reverse tree (or other advanced resources, for that matter), and take it slowly to properly digest its content. That way it can serve as a tool for reviewing/practicing learnt Kanji, in addition to teaching advanced sentence structure.
Another option is to try the Japanese course on Lingodeer, although I still think Kanji should come first.
Yes, learning 'enough' Kanji/hiragana/katakana would be part of that process! Don't you think a person would have to learn some Kanji to do the En/Jpn tree? But that is part of going deeper than the current En-Jpn tree. On the other hand, surely one does not have to have advanced knowledge of any language vocabulary to finish a Duo tree... If you check the OR, you would see that I recommended Memrise. I find their courses good for learning vocabulary and the En-Jpn side looks well stacked...
Well, I already mentioned Memrise. That's a good place for enhancing your Duolingo acquired knowledge. Lingodeer was another tool mentioned (see Arachnje's comments). Watch Japanese movies with your favorite subtitles. You can start with easy (kids level) movies. Ditto for listening to kids songs. Read Wiki pages that are both in English (or your favorite language) and Japanese and that are fun facts for you. Find a Japanese penpal that wants to learn your native language...
I agree with Testmoogle. I tried the English-from-Japanese course a few months ago before the Japanese course was available, and it was a struggle, primarily because the Japanese was so weird. Tremendous overuse of pronouns like 彼、彼女; overuse and bizarre mapping of words like その to English "the"; forcing Japanese into English-like word order ("two horses" = 二頭の馬 is correct but 馬二頭 is wrong; people say that latter one all the time).
I imagine that this highly-unnatural use of their own language must be something that Japanese learners of English are exposed to in Japanese schools, making this course more of a "English for people who attempted to learn English in Japanese high school" rather than "English for Japanese speakers".
On the phone, on the other hand, it's much more doable, because when it wants you to translate into Japanese, it gives you the Japanese words at the bottom of the screen and you just have to put them in order. You'll know right away whether a です is expected, or an unnatural その or それ should be put in. This is the way you should go if you want to take on Japanese challenges beyond the basic Japanese-from-English tree.
Duolingo class covers most of Genki 1 topics. Try skim through the book, pay attention to the words and kanji that you haven't had in duo. You can take JLPT 5 as well. After that "Genki 2" -> JLPT 4 -> "Tobira" -> JLPT 3. I would also recommend "A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar" it will cover all the grammar from JLPT5-3 that you need to know. At that level you would be pretty much fluent.