"I remember that day."

Translation:Ten den pamatuju.

October 2, 2017

10 Comments
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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeWhoSpells

I'm noticing inconsistent usage of si/se/na with pamatuje. Which of these particles does it take and when?


[deactivated user]

    Is "Pamatuju se na ten den" wrong? What's the correct way to use pamatuju?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AgnusOinas

    It's correct, I have added it now.

    The trouble with "pamatovat" is that there are 3 ways of using it, so it's difficult to encompass all the possible correct permutations (together with various word orders etc.).

    • Pamatuju ten den.
    • Pamatuju si ten den.
    • Pamatuju se na ten den.

    There are subtle nuances in the meaning between those three, but they're all used and all correct.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PritelBobka

    For this question, I answered that "I remember that day" translates to "Pamatuju na ten den." This was marked incorrect, but I had just seen in another question that "I remember his words" translated "Pamatuji na jeho slova."

    The format of these sentences looks exactly the same to me, so I am struggling with the difference between these three permutations. On the other thread, you wrote the following (which is very helpful):

    "pamatovat na" is to keep something in mind "pamatovat si" (without "na") is to memorize, have a memory of something "pamatovat se na" is to be able to recall something

    But, how can I get from the context of this exercise that "I remember his words" is being used in the sense of "I keep his words in mind" as opposed to literally remembering what he said? Is "Pamatovat na" more like remember in the sense of "reflecting on" something moreso than remembering it?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kitbogan

    Why is "Ten den" in the nominative when it should be in the accusative (or some other case)? Pamatuju puts "I" in the nominative … ano?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ValaCZE

    Here is a word which has the same form for nominative and accusative ten den. But pamatovat (si) is always with accusative.

    I'm not sure what you mean exactly : "Pamatuju puts "I" in the nominative … ano?"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kitbogan

    Aha! That makes loads more sense. I didn't know that "ten den" had the same form in both cases. Good to know! In the other sentence I had written, I wanted to clarify that "I/Já" was the subject of the sentence, rather than "ten den." So … we're clearer now! Many thanks!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

    kitbogan, why do you sat 'ten den' is in the nominative? It is in the accusative. Remember, for masculine inanimate, accusative is 'ten'!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom307502

    Looking for a little clarification. I wrote "Tamten den pamatuju" which was not correct. Had the prompt been about "the" day, then I would understand, but when it says "that" day, I think I need to use the more specific article (Tam). If someone would reply about how to generalize this usage I would appreciate it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nueby

    I added it. But you are relying on a drastically simplified representation of THE=TEN and THAT=TAMTEN. There is much more to it.

    "TEN" is not the Czech definite article, but rather a wider word that overlaps with both THE and THAT. Czech frequently uses noun phrases without TEN where English needs the definite article. After all, Czech has a fluid word order, which it often uses to show the parts of the statement already connected to some known context, while English is often stuck with having to stick the article or another determiner in there to make that clear. I have a dream. The dream is that...

    Where English uses THAT, Czech has a wider selection of demonstratives: TEN, TAMTEN, TAMHLETEN, ONEN. TEN will probably always work (and never mind that it overlaps into the THE territory). TAMHLETEN matches the uses of THAT X OVER THERE, so it is a poor fit for abstract things. TAMTEN may not be as bad as that, but it also works much better for real objects (as if the TAM really did connect to some physical THERE, as in THE X THERE), and with something like "den", I get the image of someone pointing to the spot in the calendar. (I only see things like TAMTEN DEN and TAMTU NOC in not exactly confidence inspiring translations of English books.)

    ONEN is more bookish but does not suffer from the real/abstract limitation. (I do not think we teach it.)

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