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  5. "Daniel has the eleventh."

"Daniel has the eleventh."

Translation:Daniel îl are pe al unsprezecelea.

October 11, 2017

52 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/digestives27

Forgive me if I'm just being stupid, but why is "Daniel are al unsprezecelea" incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lebo_bebo

Please See my earlier comment from 9 months ago and also the comment from Monica684041 below. These should answer your question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Afina-

Actually, it kinda does and does not explain it because there is even the exact same sentence here on Duo without an indirect object/îl/o (aside from similar sentences with other names and numbers) :
https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/23859473
And why do we need the preposition "pe"? What is it doing here?

Either, one of these sentences is wrong -than it should be deleted, or both are correct, but than both should be accepted. What ever it is, it needs fixing because it's very confusing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lebo_bebo

Having said all that, i now don't understand 'pe' in this sentence!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michaellub653582

this one is weird, I don't understand the use of (il) and (pe) in this sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mila79498

I don't understand any of the comments. O is not a word I can choose. I have to use the word îl, but I don't know what it is. Also, if the o is a clarification of a unsprezecea, why is it placed with Daniel and not with a unsprezecea?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iiai
Mod

    I made some corrections here and I hope the pronouns "o" (feminine) and "îl" (masculine) will be served now to the learners.

    The English sentence "Daniel has the eleventh." has in Romanian two perfect translations:

    • "Daniel o are pe a unsprezecea (carte, fată, monedă)." for feminine nouns and
    • "Daniel îl are pe al unsprezecelea (câine, tablou, băiat)."

    Both are somehow incomplete sentences (nouns are understanded from the context) that can be used in a conversation rather than in a letter or in a newspaper article...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Diana359350

    Thought I was getting the hang of Romanian and now.... I feel dumber than when I started Duolingo :'c


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/poftim

    No need to feel dumb. This course has serious limitations which will become more and more apparent the further you get.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lebo_bebo

    As far as i understand 'o' is the feminine singular indirect object or 'it'. Usually there would be a sentence preceding this one which would clarify what the 'it' refers to. However even as a stand-alone sentence, without a noun following unsprezecea, an indirect object is still needed so we know that Daniel has the eleventh 'something'

    As we are generally lazy as native english speakers compared to other languages, we would be happy saying "Daniel has the eleventh", without a noun or indirect object, but Romanian is stricter and requires the indirect object


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MariaMyshk

    I do not understand "o" here...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChillyPotato

    "Correct Solution: Daniel îl are pe al unsprezecelea" Can someone explain that


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corry467713

    Daniel is a boy, in Holland, so i used "al unsprezecelea " what is wrong about that?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Monica684041

    please read the good explanation of lebo_bebo...

    The facts here are :

    1) Daniel is the SUBJECT of this sentence ( ...and Daniel may be a boy or a man) .

    2) Daniel has an OBJECT .

    3) The object has a gender : male or female .

    4) Daniel decided to choose the ELEVENTH object from a list of objects; so Daniel has the eleventh (OBJECT).

    5) Now comes the most important part of this sentence : if you decide to shorten the sentence without using the word OBJECT ,in Romanian you have the possibility to express the gender of the object intrinsically by using the female or male form of the ordinal number eleven(th)...

    6) in English, German or Dutch you have only ONE form for ELEVENTH ... so you just say : I have the eleventh...

    7) but in most languages of Latin origin ( French, Spanish, ..., Romanian) you have

    • a MALE form : al unsprezecelea

    • a FEMALE form : a unsprezecea


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lebo_bebo

    Thank you for adding more detail to my explanation. Are you also able to explain why we need 'pe' in this sentence please?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/frankhauben

    6) in English, German or Dutch you have only ONE form for ELEVENTH ... so you just say : I have the eleventh...

    This is of course wrong. In German, adjectives like ordinal numbers are declined, according to the noun they specify (as in Romanian). Since every noun has case/gender/number, there are various versions of each ordinal number. For the german equivalent to "(the) eleventh", look at the declension table at wiktionary: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/elfte#German


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Monica684041

    Danke Frank, du hast Recht .... ich war ein wenig voreilig mit meiner Bemerkung 6 ... aber jetzt kann ich sie nicht löschen und werde sie korrigieren....

    Frank is right ... and I want to thank him for his comment to my point 6) .... and to correct it ....

    In German you have following distinct forms for the ordinal numeral ... depending on the three genders

    a) DEN elften ( Hund, Mann, Bus ) ... the eleventh dog, man, bus .... which are MASCULIN substantives in German

    b) DIE elfte ( Katze, Frau, Tasche) ... the eleventh cat, woman, bag .... so ... for FEMININE substantives

    c) DAS elfte ( Kind, Auto,Objekt) ... the eleventh child, car, object .... which are NEUTRAL gender substantives in German


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LidiaLita

    А еще для русскоговорящих, обьясните пожалуйста.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/olb38

    I can not see explanation about "pe" what it mean in this sentence? Probably it is someyhing specific!?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Martie730972

    I wrote : "Daniel are a unsprezecea" and it was said "correct"... No o or pe needed... ??


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iiai
    Mod

      Sorry to say that it was an internal error in this sentence... ”Daniel are a unsprezecea ....... ” is an unfinished sentence, it require a feminine noun, such as ”carte”, ”prezentare” or ”nevastă” :)


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carlobbo

      The use of "il" and "pe" seems to appear to a different skill to be learned later in the course, to find as it is now is interfering with the training on numbers


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iiai
      Mod

        You are right, and this sentence was removed for the next update of the course content.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ivanfernan293403

        It's still here! Got it wrong:O


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iiai
        Mod

          I am sorry...

          The corrected sentence (with o and îl) was published. But I have no idea when (or if) the next update will come... Or if they will adopt my suggestion of deletion... I hope at least they updated the wordbank...


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vreeli

          I see why it needs to be 'Daniel îl are pe al unsprezecilea' or 'Daniel o are pe a unsprezecea'. But could you please explain why it is allowed to say 'Tu ai a douăzecea' here: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/19712230 ? Shouldn't it be: 'Tu o ai pe a douăzecea' (following the same logic) ?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iiai
          Mod

            Thank you, that sentence was removed and replaced by a new one, for the next version of the course.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ivanfernan293403

            When's the next version come out?:)


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iiai
            Mod

              The course is made by volunteers. We don't know when they will come...


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/olb38

              Thanks for good explanation till now but what I can not understand is using "il" and "pe". What it means and why in other sentenses duo do not use " obligationary" them. Can somebidy explain this. Only mentioned is "I don't understand" from a person which is oferring a good explanation of everithing else


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThomasCapu4

              I think of it as "Daniel, it he has [ahold] on the eleventh [masculine thing], Or, taken word by word..., Daniel, îl [=it, some masculine singular noun] are [=he has (ahold)] pe [=on] al [=the] unsprezecelea [=eleventh masculine singular noun]

              If he had the eleventh of some FEMININE singular noun, I guess we would write: Daniel o are pe a unsprezecea.

              But I'm just guessing about the "pe", imagining it like a preposition, so I think of it as to have a hold of, to have a hold on [something].

              Is there a native speaker here who could set me straight on this (or maybe confirm???)


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susan902702

              What the actual heck?! So not right!


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corry467713

              There are two different answers given. With îl, and without îl. Duo, this not correct. Do something about it


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaneHolmes9

              What is îl? No idea where that comes into it... Or pe for that matter


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iiai
              Mod

                JaneHolmes9, it is the unaccented form of the personal pronoun third person, masculine. A simple example: "(Eu) îl iubesc" means "I love him".


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lebo_bebo

                I understand îl meaning 'him' in eu îl iubesc. But not this sentence. Why is it necessary? Why is it not sufficient to say 'Daniel are...'?. This sentence doesn't mean 'Daniel has the eleventh him' so does it technically mean Daniel has the eleventh something that is a masculine object?


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iiai
                Mod

                  The lesson need a set of sentences. The duty of the first contributors was to create a set of minimum three sentences for every new word. I cannot guess what was in their minds but they was restricted to use only the previously introduced words. It is not an easy duty... So the sentence was necessary to fill the course... If it is not perfect, I can't explain why. We hope the next volunteer contributor will have the courage and inspiration to replace this sentence with something simple and useful.


                  https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jill635577

                  îl are pe - These words have not come up in any lesson that I recall thus far in the daily six months I have been practicing. Is there a lesson attached to this somewhere that I can take a look at? I do not even understand the clarifying comments in this post. I need to see a lesson on this. Anyone? Thanks.


                  https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mediterran18

                  Mă întreb despre sensul practic din viața reală a unei astfel de propoziții


                  https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ip9KL

                  I would never invent such a construction by myself. Duo, how come it is so complex now?


                  https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeBaker874500

                  I thought that you should use ”pe” and (”îl” or ”o”) if the eleventh was a person (or possibly an animal), but not if it was a thing. As there are at least eleven of them, it is quite likely to be a thing, so ”pe” and ”îl/o” should not be required.


                  https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mapka15

                  I'm dutch pupil, trying to learn Romanian, so no professional ;-) A former exercise-sentence was: "Ea e a noua" - "She is the ninth". "a noua" is saying something about the subject of the sentence, no need for "îl" and "pe", but in Romanian when there is also a direct object or a indirect object in the sentence, Romanians use words as "îl", "o", "îi" and "pe".... I'm just trying to get used to that :-))


                  https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christine707870

                  This one makes zero sense. All previous examples don't have pe..


                  https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iiai
                  Mod

                    Christine707870, unfortunately there were a few mistakes in this course in the past. The course was made exclusively by volunteers with the support of users, in a very restrictive and hard-to-use incubator, and it is now also corrected by other volunteers. The process is time consuming because the volunteers are only a few with a limited time, thousands of sentences must be validated first by actual contributors and later by the users through A/B tests, so the applied corrections are not instantly published for all the users.

                    For this sentence, the translation "Daniel has the eleventh." = "Daniel îl are pe al unsprezecelea." is finally correct.

                    If you encounter similar examples without "pe" please ask in sentence discussion and report them. At their age, this Romanian course is now only an exercise book (with a few mistakes), please don't base your language learning only on it.


                    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lebo_bebo

                    Are you able to explain please why we need to use pe in these sentences? Why can we not just say, 'Daniel îl are al unsprezecelea'


                    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iiai
                    Mod

                      I am able to try, let's hope you will be able to understand.

                      "Daniel are un cal." is the simple sentence. "Daniel has a horse."

                      "Daniel îl are." is the next one. (îl refers the horse) "Daniel has it." The noun was replaced by a pronoun.

                      In Romanian the pronoun at third person masculine has three forms (el, îl, l). Romanian don't have something like it.

                      Now, al unsprezecelea is an numeral for showing the order of a specific something.

                      When, in a lack of context, it is used the form "Daniel îl are" there is missed object or pronoun that is unmentioned.

                      So, to clarify, you can expand the previous sentences saying: "Daniel are al unsprezecelea cal." (a mentioned noun) or "Daniel îl are pe cal."/"Daniel îl are pe al unsprezecelea cal." (the pronoun îl is imposing the usage of pe preposition)

                      In Romanian we call this part of the sentence "complement direct", and it must answer to one of the following two questions: Ce? Pe cine? (What? Whom?)

                      For this reason, we can say "Daniel are un cal." or "Daniel îl are pe cal." and "pe" is a must and can't be omitted.

                      https://www.gimnaziu.info/complementul-direct-complementul-indirect


                      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ela943060

                      Why is it incorrect ?


                      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cozett2

                      I do not understand why the form is like this???!!!


                      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mackers8

                      It never gives a lesson explaining this


                      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ANfg91

                      My suggestion is for this section, to put an object in that is either male or female as it is difficult enough at this stage getting that right without guessing at some invisible thing off a list. It (Romanian style) should be introduced in another section with a full sentence with a noun and a second sentence with the relevant Romanian way if covering 'it'. Should then make sense to everyone with all variations. We appreciate the efforts of the volunteers in putting together the course. It must be difficult explaining things to so many people from different language backgrounds (native and learned)


                      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/olb38

                      May be here we need to suspect the birth day of Daniel!? He was born at -"pe" eleventh - unsprezecea


                      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iiai
                      Mod

                        No, for birthdate you can say "Daniel s-a născut în a unsprezecea zi din Octombrie."

                        In the course sentence Daniel has something unnamed, that is the eleventh thing from a list or array. The thing can be a sports trophy, for instance, in the masculine form. Also can be a wife for the feminine form. However, a lucky man!

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