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"A woman writes the book down by hand."

Translation:여자는 책을 손으로 씁니다.

October 14, 2017

41 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ColinTan5

Why do they not allow 적습니다 and it must be 씁니다? Arent they the same thing?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fierymagpie

I actually looked that up and found that 쓰다 is used when you use your brain and creativity to write something (a book, a letter, some calligraphy, lyrics, you name it), while 적다 is used for quite the opposite - when you don't think much, do it automatically, fast, maybe some sketch or scribble, things you don't care about much or when you talk about something written or reading what is written (just reading doesn't require a lot of brains). However, if you want to emphasize that what is written took some thought and creativity, then you use 쓰다. In a lot of situations, you can't tell what can be considered creative or not and it is rather subjective, so both words can be used interchangeably, but one should keep in mind their subtle meanings. I hope I explained it clearly :T


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ringochan94

This nuance in meaning is so cool


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnonyLearner

Thank you very much for this clarification!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/s.kwon

Thanks for the clarification!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kurosuverino

Wow @Nephemex, you explain it very well, thank you! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/InderjeetS699740

Thanks a lot for your explanation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dw2cco

It's accepted now (Jan 2020)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maxkoryukov

UPD: I copied the explanation from korean-stackexchange-forum (see below DEFINITION)


after I read all the comments here: duolingo forum and here: stackexchange, I made a conclusion:

my answer 여자는 책을 손으로 적습니다 should NOT be accepted.

Because writing a book is a creative process that involves the brain into the process (usually it does, I don't know what kind of book is there, but let's be respectful to an anonymous woman).

Am I right?


Definitions

쓰다 - creatively writing

쓰다 is used when you are writing something creative and meaningful. You act as an author.

Use cases: creating (writing) books, writing letters, writing texts of the songs, writing this article (check my last chapter of this paper :D ).

적다 - making notes

적다 is mostly about the simple process of writing symbols on paper/on the screen, to save something in a written form. So, it is mostly about the mechanical process of hand-movement.

Use cases: making notes, writing the shopping lists, saving the phone number in an old-style contact-book.

Question about translation

So, the most suitable translation for the original sentence "The woman writes a book" depends on the woman and her book. If that sentence was about another one "Harry Potter and something" book from Joanne Rowling — it is definitely 쓰다. But if the woman is my neighbor and she is filling a register-book of her daily purchases — 작다 would fit better.

See also


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SantiagoG995235

I believe so since that is what I've learned here in duolingo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chaejjang

I thought (으)로 means towards?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wintertriangles

It can also be used to show which method you use. 빵을 칼로 잘라요. = Cut the bread with a knife. 영어로 말해요 = speak in (with) English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Clarissa_Rosex

Thank you!! I was wondering about that too


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rut168910

why is it 책을 and not 책이?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lu2044

because if you add 이 to book, this makes it the thing doing the action (because 이 is one of the subject markers), so instead you add 을 to book to make it the object. hopefully you understand what i mean :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Clarissa_Rosex

Ohhh thank you! I was wondering the same thing


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lu2044

anytime!! also just so you know there are two object markers: 을 which is used after a consonant, and 를 after a vowel


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Clarissa_Rosex

thank you! also do you happen to know why it's 손으로 and not just 손로? does the -으 part indicate the method? I saw a comment about it but I wasn't positive lol


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mhin1

Every particle or marker has a dual form depending on whether the word stem ends in a consonant or not. This is to ease pronunciation. Some examples:

  • Topic Markers: 은/는
  • Subject Markers: 이/가
  • Object Markers: 을/를
  • "and"/"with": ~와/과
  • "using, method": ~(으)로
  • Formal Speech Verb Conjugation: +(스)ㅂ니다

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ColinTan5

Why do they not allow 적습니다? Isn't 씁니다 and 적습니다 the same meaning?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ColinTan5

Ops accidently typed twice mn


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alrykson

my jaw dropped on this example; I've respect for anyone who writes books by hand in this day and age. It takes so much time- the editing? Heaven forefend.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErichRegal

What does 으로 mean when its used in end of a word?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Clarissa_Rosex

I think it shows a method of how something is done, so when it says 손으로, it means “by hand,” as in the book is written by hand, the method of writing the book is done by hand. I’m not positive if that’s all it means, but that’s my current understanding of it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie_Winnie

Why is it 여자는 and not 여자가 ? (In the last exercice, the man is writing newspaper was 남자가 신문을 씁니다)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/reveluvluvluv

yeojaneun chaekeul soneuro sseubnida


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MonicaRend6

Why 손으로 and not 아래로?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/e.v14

Cuz 손으로 is "with/by hand" and 아래로 is "under"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gautam28799

Would "여자는 손으로 책을 씁니다" be valid as well?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mhin1

Yes, that's also valid.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dipagssi

Is "여자는 손으로 책씁니다" valid as well? Dropping the 을 since it is adjacent to the verb? Or am I missing something?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mhin1

No, the object marker is necessary, especially in written Korean. However, you are not just dropping particles, you are also concatenating the object with the verb. This is improper.

  1. Noun-verb Concatenation is typically only done with the copula 이다 and sometimes 하다 (though this is pretty nuanced itself).
  2. Dropping particles is only passable in certain circumstances such as when concatenating with the copula 이다 or speaking casually.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dipagssi

Then, are 잠자다, 춤추다 and 꿈꾸다 exceptions?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mhin1

At first glance, but not really. At least not when you consider verb transitivity. Verbs like 자다 are transitive and thus need an object. The derviatives like 잠자다 are ambitransitive and can be used with or without an object. While their meanings are the same, their usages are different.


The verbs 자다, 추다, and 꾸다 are transitive verbs -- they require an object for the subject to act upon.

  • 낮잠을 자다 = "to sleep a nap"
  • 왈츠를 추다 = "to dance a waltz"
  • 악몽을 꾸다 = "to dream a nightmare"

You can use the gerund form of the verb (stem + (으)ㅁ) as an object as well and its the inspiration for the concatenation that turns the transitive verb into an ambitransitive one.

  • 잠자다 = "to sleep (a sleep)"
  • 춤추다 = "to dance (a dance)"
  • 꿈꾸다 = "to dream (a dream)"

In addition, these ambitransitive verbs can gain idiomatic meanings as well:

  • 잠자다 = "to idle"
  • 춤추다 = "to jump for joy"

The only other ambitransitive verb like this that I'm aware of is 숨쉬다, "to breathe (a breath)" or "to draw a breath".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dipagssi

That's a good explanation. Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmb00dmm

down은 왜 쓰나요?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/koko8d

Is there a specific reason why I am not able to use 여자가 in this case?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DJEO5i

Why didn't they allow to join the 아래로 From the sentence?

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