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  5. "Je pátek pátý nebo šestý den…

"Je pátek pátý nebo šestý den týdne?"

Translation:Is Friday the fifth or the sixth day of the week?

October 21, 2017

27 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/folshost

This did not accept "Is Friday the fifth or sixth day of the week" even though that sounds right to me. Does that seem like a colloquialism to anybody?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pbiegaj1

I agree. "The fifth or sixth" without the second "the" is how I'd naturally say it and since the Czech "the" is implied I'd think both should be accepted answers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lobachevsky.

I agree, the second "the" is redundant; i.e. correct but not necessary.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tibro3

To include the second "the" seems hypercorrect to me, not what is most commonly heard or used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vor23

I'm going to disagree here and say that, at least in American English, the correct thing is to say "the fifth or the sixth."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tibro3

Again, I would say that it is hypercorrect. Actual usage will show that the second "the" is often elided and is accepted as proper.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatharinaM882088

And wht is the answer? When does a week begin? Sunday or Monday? Here in Europe it's Monday, therefore Friday is the fifth day. But how is it in other countries? In Greek the names of the days derive from a system, where the first day is Sunday. Therefore the name for Monday means "second day" and so on. Πέμπτη (pémpti), literally the fifth day, is Thursday! Very confusing! Because I know Greek very well I translated pátek wrongly with Thursday.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dany.oz.9

In hebrew it's the sam and Friday is the sixth day of the week


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianSille2

The days of the week in many cultures are based on the story of the creation in the Bible. "On the seventh day God rested" so that became the sabbath. This has traditionally been regarded as being Saturday and this is reflected in the name of the day in Czech, Spanish and other languages. In the Christian tradition the sabbath was changed to Sunday causing the confusion referred to by Katerina.... In Czech Sunday is "no work day" and most other days are named according to the order in which they follow Sunday.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AgnusOinas

Yes, exactly. And the reason for moving the sabbath (or the main mass of the week) to Sunday by the Christian church was that pagans celebrated Sunday as the main holiday of the week - it was, after all, the day of the SUN, the most important of the gods. So it was a marketing move, to convert more pagans to christianity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StanThPhysicsMan

I find this dubious, and cannot find a source that proposes this theory. Note that Sunday wasn't a day of rest for the Romans until Constantine decreed it, so there doesn't seem much to gain by that if it had to do with appeasing pagans—rather the move seems somewhat radical. The holiness of Sunday did have a cult following in Rome, but I cannot confirm this was mainstream and recognized by the state. Besides, Sunday was already a special day for Christians for centuries, relating to Jesus's death.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ConanDoyle11

Pagans in the Roman empire didn't observe a seven day week, they followed the system of kalends and ides and reckoned their festivals from those. All attested names of weekdays in European languages postdate the Constantinian dynasty during which Christianity became embedded in the administrative structures of the Empire.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ConanDoyle11

I was recently thinking about this, as I started Greek before Czech. I think the reason is that Greek speakers adopted a seven day week before Christianity existed, so followed the Hebrew model, but Northern European languages adopted the seven day week as a consequence of Christian conversion, in this case with the mission of Cyril and Methodius to Greater Moravia.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pdusek

Does it have to be day of THE week? To me it seems improper, as we do not speak about any specific week.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianSille2

Is the similarity between PÁTEK and PÁTY coincidental? (If not it answers the question!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AgnusOinas

No coincidence. But you know, some will claim that the week begins with Sunday (in the UK, for example), making Friday the sixth day, regardless of its etymology.

  • pondělí - from "po neděli" (after sunday)
  • úterý - from old Czech "vterý" = druhý (second)
  • středa - from "střed" (middle)
  • čtvrtek - from "čtvrtý" (fourth)
  • pátek - from "pátý" (fifth)
  • sobota - from "sabat" (sabbath)
  • neděle - from "nedělat" (not to work)

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianSille2

Yes. Thank you. I later came across ctvrty and that answered my question. I then recalled reading it in the notes, but unfortunately my memory is not what it was. Thank you again. Makes a nice change from Roman and Norse gods!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AgnusOinas

Yes, Slavs wanted to distance themselves from the whole pantheon thingy :D Or maybe they weren't sure anymore what the Slavic gods were by the time the seven-day week was introduced. Thursday would have probably been named after Perun, as he corresponds best to Zeus/Jupiter/Thor. Friday could have been named either after Lada, Zora, or Vesna, hard to say which one is closest to Aphrodite/Venus/Freya. Probably Lada. Sunday would be after Slunce and Monday after Měsíc, of course. But Sunday could also be named after Dažbog and Monday after Jutrobog as those two were the sun and moon gods, respectively.. Tuesday and Wednesday would be tricky, perhaps Svarog or Jarilo, and Veles. And Saturday was a problem even for the Germanic tribes - they couldn't find a good "translation" for Saturn, so the Nordics call it the washing day, and English is stuck with Saturday in contrast to the other 6 localized days. Either Slavic Triglav or Sud/Sudenica (Judge) may be associated with Saturn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juggler69

Being from the UK, I have always considered Monday as the first day of the week. Please don't lump me in with those crazies who believe that it is Sunday! ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sa-Matra

I think omitting the before fifth or sixth words should be allowed. I am not a native speaker, but I feel that its normal to say it like that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianSille2

The particular sentence here is better with "the fifth or the sixth". On the other hand you might say "He came on the fifth or sixth of June", or It was the fifth or sixth time he came". Don't ask me why, it is just what I would be inclined to say myself .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sam278989

At least in the United States, most people think of Saturday and Sunday as the weekend, so it makes sense for us to think of Monday as the first day of the week. I can't vouch for what Czechs or other Europeans would say.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

Well, the names čtvrtek and pátek come from the words čvrtý (fourth) and pátý (fifth)...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianSille2

As I understand it the order of the days of the week are based on the biblical account of the creation. "On the seventh day God rested" so this became the Sabbath, reflected in the Czech name for Saturday. The Christian tradition changed their sabbath to Sunday, which became the day of rest, reflected in the Czech name 'nedele' (do nothing). In Czech, as in German, Wednesday is 'mid-week' suggests that Sunday is the first day. Three of the Czech names of the other days are derived from ordinal numbers suggest that Monday was the first day. This, however, may be a misconception. As Monday is 'after Sunday' the next three days may just be named from the order in which they follow the 'do nothing' day!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

The Old Church Slavonic names were

понедѣльникъ (ponedělĭnikŭ),
въторьникъ (vŭtorĭnikŭ),
середа (sereda)/третииникъ (tretiinikŭ),
четвьртъкъ (četvĭrtŭkŭ)/четвьргъ (četvĭrgŭ),
пѧтъкъ (pętŭkŭ)/пѧтьница (pętĭnica),
субота (subota),
недѣлꙗ (nedělja)

and we can go even farther, the Baltic names (Lithuanian, Latvian) are also similar. That is not to say that old Balto-Slavs used a Christian calendar, obviously. Just that this numbering names are more widespread.

BTW in Polabian (now extinct) there was “perěndan” for Thursday, but it was very likely a calque to "Donnerstag", not an old preserved name.

Those names originate in the Cyril and Methodius mission that came from Greece (Eastern Roman Empire) and follows the Greek pattern of numbering the days. However, the Greek names were counted the older way, from Sunday (Δευτέρα = Monday = the second). But the lithurgic week in the Greek Church, if I am not mistaken, already started on Monday, so the counting from Monday was used for Old Church Slavonic. At least I believe that the Greek orthodox Holy Week starts with the Holy Monday and the Grat lent laso starts on Monday with the Clean Monday. If I am wrong, then Cyril and Methodius might have changed the order themselves.

I might be wrong here but it is clear that the counting was chosen to count from Monday from the beginning and that it differs from the Greek ordinal names.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

This seems to be confirmed by a link given by kacenka here "Saturday is the last day of the week."

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