https://www.duolingo.com/ThorusCrusius

Limit the phrase drill to 3-5 repetitions

When doing the modules and giving a false answer, the "wrong" phrase appears again at the end of the session. This will be endlessly repeated. If I can't store the answer in my short term memory after 5 times (when it's new) or 3 times (when it's a skill strenghtening or redoing) I can't "learn" it RIGHT NOW, no matter how often you'll confront me with this annoying phrase in that vicious circle. The contrary will happen: HATING this phrase, subconciusly denying to learn it, addidionally, the motivation drops down rapidly into the abysm.

Solution

As already described: Limit the amount of repetition to 5x when it's new and to 3x when it's already appeared. Just don't overdo it! Include it in your SRS formular, instead.

Greetings Thorus

October 24, 2017

4 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/slogger

Why not try dealing with this, yourself? As you are doing a Duolingo exercise, write down the sentence or phrase that is a problem. If you have not managed to remember it after a few repetitions and are frustrated by trying, then type it in, copying from what you wrote down, and go on. Then, away from Duolingo, work on memorizing the sentence. Give this a shot and see if it works for you.

October 24, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/pentaan

can't "learn" it RIGHT NOW .....

A good method to start to learn that phrase right now:

  1. have a look at the sentence discussion
  2. write the translation on a note
  3. if that sentence appears again, try to type the answer and correct it according to your note.
October 24, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Thomas.Heiss

You have NOT summarized, that there actually are even repetitions on the web (typing) in a single strengthen session if you KNOW the answer to the question (more than once).

I do not like that!
This has been on the old (Python) portal before, hasn't it?!


Compare Memrise:

Memrise cut the repetition from 3 to 1 (we had a user script limiting (typing) repetition to 1 instead of 3).

They replaced the one typing repetition with one multiple-choice in their latest code update, if you have not installed the "all typing" user script from Cooljingle.

Either approaches get on my nerves:

  • Only one multiple-choice (2nd review) after the wrong given answer: Too easy and I can not practice typing (may be ok with longer sentences, but not for single words).
  • 3 more typing repetitions: Too much (I can not focus on the 99/100 other words in a session - we had to use a user script to cut 3 down to 1)
  • just 1 more typing repetition: OK, as long as I RECALL the answer.
  • endlessly (one to three or more) typing repetition if I make again another error in the 1st repetition: Not optimal, as there is no opt-out - there is no guarantee that I will remember/recall the word/phrase/sentence ever.

I agree with you, that there MUST BE an OPT-out in any way, either automatic, or with manual support.
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My personal solution would be a combination of 1/1+ typing repetitions and one final multiple-choice question, if you have NOT gotten that question correct in the first 1-3 typing cycles.

Alternative:
A specific "Do NOT repeat in in this session" button, which you can press when you want to manually opt-out (e.g after 3-5 times; there needs to be a counter displayed how often we have already seen the sentence).

I think the last question (phrase/sentence) in multiple-choice form should be doable to answer correctly, instead of typing.
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The real funny thing about ~3-7 questions could get you to the point, that you can not remember/recall ALL OF THEM in a single session.
I already experienced that with Memrise, either learning new 15 words/phrases or in a 100 review session.
If a learner get's penetrated by 2-3 (more difficult) questions, which one can not easily remember in one single session, the whole system works against me, instead of working for me.


Learning mode:

Memrise has up to 6 flower planting steps.
I agree with DuoLingo developers that it is not bad to see a sentence/phrase more than one time in a single learning session.
I really think that this helps to hammar something new into my head, especially DuoLingo focuses on teaching about only 7 NEW words, instead of 15 in a single skill.

Reviewing / Strengthen:

This needs to be effective as possible, without getting onto my nerves....so I can push forward with the rest of the words and finish the strengthen exercise as soon as possible.

My goal is not to focus on ONE strengthen exercise, but be able to finish multiple strengthen exercises in a short time, so I can practice my weaker words (sadly, we all know that this really does NOT work on DuoLingo because of bugs yet)......
......... or .......
to finish 3-5++ manually picked skills (e.g grammar skills from "DuoLingo skill strength viewer").

October 24, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ThorusCrusius

Quote

You have NOT summarized, that there actually are even repetitions on the web (typing) in a single strengthen session if you KNOW the answer to the question (more than one).

Yes, it was in the old version more often than now. But it still happens sometimes. And I agree that this is annoying. One could argue that the brain learns also through repetition. But it won't learn if you feel fooled by the program/trainer.

Your suggestion with the manual opt-out/do-not-repeat-in-this-session button would be great, so everyone could decide on his own when it's enough.

The possibility to create user scripts would be a solution, besides limiting the repetition I then would prefere to give more answers in the target language (my passive knowledge is strong enough). But I guess Duolingo's staff unfortunately won't offer a save interface for a script.

The strengthen function seems not to work correctly at all. Additionally to what you've said, when it creates a training session, in the end the trained skill is not strengthened even a bit.

October 24, 2017
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