fun with n-declination
Hi chaps,
I've just been given this exercise, I've tried a couple of different answers but computer keeps saying "nein"... Anyone got any ideas/explanations?
Fill in the gaps:
"Diese karitative Organisation hilft politischen _ (gefangen, Pl.) und kümmert sich um aus dem Land ___ (vertrieben, Pl.)"
Thanks!
14 Comments
Hi Vincent,
Thanks for the speedy reply.
That's what I thought. Nominalised participles are subject to n-declination and in this case Gefangenen is in dative and Vertriebenen in accusative, right?
Computer says that it should be Gefangenen and Vertriebene. Is this a bug?
No, Gefangenen and Vertriebene (without -n) is correct. Can't explain grammar, though.
Offering the explanation to your answer (which I agree is correct):
Both blank spaces are nominalised participial adjectives ((past) participles of verbs acting as adjectives acting as nouns). Looking at each one separately:
Verb: fangen ("to catch")
Participle: gefangen ("caught")
As an adjective: gefangen ("imprisoned/captive")
Case required due to the sentence: dative (from verb helfen)
Gender: plural (given)
Is there an article: No
Adjective ending hence required: -en
Resulting noun: Gefangenen
Note that the nominalised adjective needs the same adjective ending as any normal adjectives preceding it.
Verb: vertreiben ("to drive out")
Participle: vertrieben ("driven out")
As an adjective: vertrieben ("displaced")
Case required due to the sentence: accusative (from preposition um)
Gender: plural (given)
Is there an article: No
Adjective ending hence required: -e
Resulting noun: Vertriebene
This is verified by Canoo.net.
To answer the original question about n-declination for nominalised adjectives, that does not happen as a rule. It may appear that way a lot of the time, but it's more likely just an -en adjective ending (there are a lot of combinations that produce that). But accusative plural without an article is not one of them.
Hi az_p,
Thanks for a great explanation!
Yep, that was my mistake. Nominalised adjectives, it turns out, do not demand n-declination!
Thanks for the help everyone.
Theo
PS here is the site I got the question from, in case anyone's interested. The exercises on it are really good:
https://www.deutsch-lernen.com/learn-german-online/05_e_deklination_nomen.php
Looks great :D It makes sense to have this formular like step-by-step go-through, so you've a landmark in the grammar jungle.
And Canoo.net is a good source, if you know how to find the right stuff there.
494
"To answer the original question about n-declination for nominalised adjectives, that does not happen as a rule."
Is the term "n-declination" relevant at all here? I think not, but I would be happy to learn something new!
Are you asking what n-declination is?
http://germanforenglishspeakers.com/nouns/weak-nouns-the-n-declension/
- 494
Have to reply to my own comment, as Duo won't allow another level of indentation.
"Are you asking what n-declination is?"
No, I just don't see the connection between that and nominalised participial adjectives. I thought the original poster was just confused, but your comment "that does not happen as a rule" made me think there can be a connection in certain circumstances. Perhaps I read too much into your wording.
@stoopher: I was mostly just hedging, because I do have something in the back of my mind, like maybe I encountered an exception once, or a word that looked like a nominalised adjective but these days is considered a totally normal noun and hence subject to n-declination...
Basically I just wanted to say "there is no rule that nominalised adjectives need n-declination", as that seemed to directly address the OP's query.
"Diese karitative Organisation hilft politisch Gefangenen und kümmert sich um aus dem Land Vertriebenen." should be correct. die politisch Gefangenen = the politically captured die aus dem Land Vertriebenen = the people who were expelled from the(ir) country
hope that helps!
You've dropped the adjective ending from politisch completely, and somehow have Vertriebenen instead of Vertriebene. Why's that?
- 1092
if you say "die aus dem Land vertriebenen Personen" the "n" would be right.
