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"They aren't looking after the last animals."

Translation:O poslední zvířata se nestarají.

October 29, 2017

23 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lhgates

Why is the verb at the end? How do you know the order of words in a sentence? In English it would be "The last animals they are not looking after" if we followed that order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nikisia

I got that sentence as a good one: "Nepečujou o poslední zvířata." - and here is a verb which I don't know yet on this course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TrudyBe

I was told 'O poslední zvířata se nestarají' was the correct answer. What about the 2nd position rule in this case? Does it mean 2nd position after the noun phrase or literally 2nd position word in every sentence. This is confusing!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

The second position is the first unstressed position in the sentence. It comes after the phrase in the first position, which can be very long and can even include subordinate clauses:

O poslední zvířata, která jim zbyla poté, co je vykradli zloději, se nestarají. They aren't looking after the last animals that remained after they were robbed by thieves.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TrudyBe

Thank you for very helpful explanation. Quite different word order to English but makes sense and sounds fine in Czech!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom206110

Nestarají se o ta poslední zvířata. Why not?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BoneheadBass

Your answer may have been rejected because it included "ta" where it isn't needed. Unfortunately, I can't explain exactly why it isn't needed -- I think I've just gotten used to words like that being omitted in a lot of sentences here!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Henk729768

I have the same answer as Tom206110. I don´t understand why "ta"should be left out. There is a difference in english between 1: looking after animals, and 2: looking after the animals.

Would "Nestarají se o poslední zvířata" be ok? (different word order)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BoneheadBass

Here is my updated GUESS about the version with "ta" being considered incorrect.

"Ta" is a demonstrative pronoun referring to a specific (the or that) thing. The adjective in this sentence is "last." Only one thing (or, here, group of similar things) can be the "last" one, so... my reasoning would be that "ta" is unnecessary.

On your second question, since "se" looks to be in the right place, it would seem to me that your suggested version makes the same point.

But since I am learning, too, I could certainly be wrong on both counts! :-)

You could try reporting them as My Answer Should Be Accepted and see what happens. You'll get a note from DL if it's added to the list of "right" answers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaliborNovy

"Nestarají se o ta poslední zvířata." and "Oni se nestarají o ta poslední zvířata." both , I am sure it is correct. Sorry for the explanation in Czech.

V anglické větě se jedná o konkrétní skupinu zvířat. Česká věta bez "ta" může znamenat jak konkrétní skupinu, tak i obecně nějaká poslední zvířata (někde, která je vůbec nezajímají - nestarají se o ně). Upřesnění pomocí "ta" by tedy nemělo být chybou. V jiných podobných větách na duolingu to také není chybou. (nahlášeno)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Artashes98

Yes, I agree with all the people who say that "Nestarají se o ta poslední zvířata" should be accepted. No convincing argument against it was presented.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BoneheadBass

"Nestarají se o poslední zvířata" is accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

The last animals in English simply means the animals that are last. That is in Czech just "poslední zvířata".

Ta poslední zvířata means those last animals we already discussed about. Not just any animals that happen to be the last ones. In English "those last animals".

There is really a strong asymetry between the languages here. Consider "This is the first beer." saying you didn't have any beer before this one. It simply does not make any sense to say "Tohle je to první pivo." it must be just "Tohle je první pivo.". The same for "This is the last beer." meaning that the person is not getting any more beer. That must be "Tohle je poslední pivo." because "Tohle je to poslední pivo." means this the last beer I have told you about before.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Artashes98

Yes, this is a convincing comparison, thank you. Still, when translating the English sentence "They aren't looking after the last animals." we don't know from the context if they are not "the very last animals", so "ta" should be accepted as a reasonable alternative variant.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BoneheadBass

But we do know that Czech does not require the demonstrative just because English uses it, and that including the demonstrative in Czech has a specific effect on the meaning of the sentence. Again, maybe I have simply absorbed this through repetition, since I am native AmE.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaliborNovy

Thank you, VladaFu and BoneheadBass. I'm not sure if common English strictly follows this difference (the/that), but Duolingo don't. See e.g. these sentences - are accepted in both directions. And some are in the main translation:

It is the last/final season. - To je ta poslední sezóna.

Is that the last group? - Je to ta poslední skupina?

It is true these are from the English course from Czech. But I think it is possible to find more such examples.

EDIT: And as far as Czech, I remind e.g. these sentences: "Brzy zmizí i ta poslední zvířata." , "Pochytáme je všechny, až do toho posledního zvířete."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

It is always more complex. We have to choose what is still reasonable and what a possible stretch. Sometimes it is not easy.

I think that your examples you show are quite specifix and you should feel that as a Czech speaker and I do not actually find the latter one too natural.

There is also. "Tohle pive je to poslední." but it is something else than "Tohle je to poslední pivo.".

It reminds me sentences like "I am sitting at the desk, working on the computer and deleting the last files.". I really hope we can agree that translating it as "Sedím u toho stolu, pracuju na tom počítači a mažu ty poslední soubory." is not a good idea.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaliborNovy

I agree. But I just feel that "Oni se nestarají o ta poslední zvířata." is also such a specific case where "ta" is suitable. I even think a little more than in the two instances above. The decision is up to you. Anyway, thank you for your consideration.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nullusaum

"Se nestarají o poslední zvířata" was marked wrong. Is that word order not ok?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

See the second position rule for "se".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DiegoC726770

Hello I have one question, I would like to know if I could say ' Se o posledni zvirata nestaraji' or if is better to stick to the 2nd position 'o posledni zvirata se nestaraji' when I do not want to mention the pronoun. If both are fine, could you tell me which one is better in informal and formal contexts: Cheers!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaliborNovy

"Se o poslední zvířata nestarají." is really wrong. The pronoun must be here.

We can say e.g. "Se nezblázni!" (Don't be silly!), "Se nestarej!" (Don't take care! / Don't worry!), "Se kvůli tomu nesesypu." (I won't fall apart because of that.) , but it is an informal and very emotional expression. "Nezblázni se!" , "Nestarej se!" , "Já se kvůli tomu nesesypu." are slightly less emotional expressions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

Se must follow the second position rule. Only in very informal communication you would do something mentioned by Dalibor 'se nestarej!. For clarity I used the apostrophe to mark something missing.

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