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  5. "Vidím dalších pět lišek."

"Vidím dalších pět lišek."

Translation:I can see five more foxes.

October 31, 2017

30 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom260364

if we are learning Czech than it is important that we know that lišky are also chanterelles! ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AgnusOinas

True, you're much more likely to see five more of these mushrooms in a Czech forest than the actual animals. You'd be lucky to see a single fox.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jakub72S

my incorrect sentence: "I see other five foxes" correct solution: "I see another five foxes"..., in different discussion I have read another for singular, other for plural.. so I think: another fox / other foxes.. .. so I understand it at all.. can someone expian me that..??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve254604

This isn't a comprehensive explanation, but in the context of this sentence: "I see ANOTHER five foxes" means that I see five additional foxes (i.e., five more than were there before). But "I see five OTHER foxes" (note the different word order) means that I see five different foxes (i.e., not the foxes that I saw before). In the first example, “another” seems to modify “five”, rather than “foxes”.

Here we are told that "another" is a better translation of the word "dalších".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shathu_Entayla

Why is "dalsi" in genitive here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kacenka9

Because it is over 4 count. Read Tips and Notes at Numbers 1


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarauh

Ok, but the word order is still surprising (and I'm not sure that it is mentioned in the notes). I tend to think of "pět" as meaning "a group of five", where the "of" is supposed to remind me of the genitiv. However, that analogy does not work here: in "another group of five foxes", there seems to be no reason for "another" to be in genitiv, while in "a group of five more foxes", the genitiv makes sense.

What if the "foxes" disappear? How to say: "I can see five more." Would that also be: "Vidím dalších pět."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AgnusOinas

Yes, it would be "Vidím dalších pět."

Everything that is governed by the numeral must be in genitive. For example:

Je tam dalších pět zrzavých lišek. (There are five more ginger-colored foxes there.) vs. Jsou tam další čtyři zrzavé lišky.

Co dělá těch šest zbylých psů? (What are those six remaining dogs doing?) vs. Co dělají ti tři zbylí psi?

Chceš všech pět lístků? (Do you want all five tickets?) vs. Chceš všechny čtyři lístky?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarauh

Thank you, that is helpful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/garpike

Out of interest, how would you say 'more than five'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/strubkin

Why "I can see"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve254604

There is a better explanation of this elsewhere in the Czech course (perhaps someone has the link?), but in English and the other Germanic languages, we sometimes use “can” with sensory verbs to express something like, “I am currently seeing” or “I am currently hearing”, etc. “I can see five more foxes” might suggest that I have just noticed five more foxes, or five more foxes have just walked into my line of sight, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jane308391

Why can't I translate dalsi as 'a further'? It seems etymologically better aligned eg far - further and daleko - dale. Also another used to be two words (an other). 'A further' is still two words.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BoneheadBass

I have added "a further" to the list of accepted translations. I think it might be used much less frequently than the other options, but it does work.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TomasRejda

Why is i see five foxes more wrong. Dl wants to translate it with I can, but where is that in vidím i think you could translate it both ways i see and i can see


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

Plesde state the exact sentence. There is too much independent stuff in your question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TomasRejda

I see five foxes more. AngusOinas states that this might be incorrect english as far as the word sequence is concerned. He might be right, I'm not sure myself, that's why I would like it to be judged by an expert like you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AgnusOinas

"I see five foxes more" is (as of now) unaccepted not because of a missing "can" - we accept "I see" as well as "I can see". An accepted answer is "I see five more foxes." I'm not sure if placing "more" last here is correct and I can't find any source of info on this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TomasRejda

Well, to myself it sounds lyrical, like you woud sing it if it was a song, maybe not completely correct english, but we are learning czech anyhow. Thank you for your explanation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AgnusOinas

You're right, but we still don't want to include wrong English in the accepted answers, it would mislead a lot of learners who aren't native speakers. Also, Czechs come here to learn English as well even though it's not the primary purpose of this course.

I'm not against your wording, I'd just like to wait for another opinion because I'm not sure myself in this instance.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidMills574753

I don't think you've had another opinion yet? Well as a greybeard English speaker, I would say "five foxes more" although less common, is acceptable English. Strangely, absolutely not "more five foxes", that has to be "another five foxes." No idea why!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/garpike

I agree that this is entirely good English; it is more literary-sounding, but not confined to poetic word-order gymnastics. If we dispense with the foxes (which are, perhaps, a distraction) for a moment, 'I got one point more' sounds just as normal as 'I got one more point'.

I also agree with you point below that 'five foxes more/fewer than X' is very common usage.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BoneheadBass

FWIW... To me, "five foxes more" sounds like it belongs in a poem/rhyme, song, or children's book. It has its purpose, but it's definitely not common usage. I wouldn't be in a hurry to add it, since so many non-English natives are taking the course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidMills574753

If it is not included it may confuse someone later coming across the construction where the speaker goes on to compare the additional foxes with something/someone else such as "I've got five foxes more than you" (which can also be expressed as "I've got five more foxes than you")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AgnusOinas

All this interesting discussion about English word order aside, my head keeps translating "Vidím dalších pět lišek" as "I see five more chanterelles", not foxes, because it's a lot more likely that the speaker sees another five mushrooms than five foxes. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UIPBSpgf

Vidím dalších pět lišek.... it seems to me that this should be translated as, "I see five more foxes", or perhaps "I am seeing five more..."....yet the translation offered includes the word "can". 'I can see five more...". I wonder why this would be the case? Would the transition, "I can see five more foxes", not be better as " mužů vidět dalších pět lišek"? Maybe i am missing something special about the understanding of "vidím"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AgnusOinas

In English, "I see something" and "I can see something" are nearly the same. Not so in Czech. "Můžu vidět pět lišek" is along the lines of "I can see five foxes whenever I want, I can simply go to the zoo and I will be able to see them there."

We usually ask "Can you see that?" in English, while in Czech the same idea is expressed simply by "Vidíš to?".

On the other hand, "I see" has a secondary meaning in English (I realize something, I understand something now), but "Vidím" doesn't have that meaning in Czech.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidMills574753

Re AgnusOinas's comment on mushrooms, and personally I'd like many mushrooms more than more foxes, my point about the position of "more" is still pertinent! Oh, and what about the classic film "For a Few Dollars More"?

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