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  5. "주인은 거짓말을 하자고 했어요."

"주인은 거짓말을 하자고 했어요."

Translation:The owner suggested telling a lie.

November 1, 2017

42 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SvedishPlumber

나쁜 남자이예요!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatthewEpp5

Agreed that's he's bad, hahaha. Just a small correction: 나쁜 남자예요. Since the last syllable of man ends in a vowel, the verb contracts 이에요 -> 예요.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Angemony

Why do you assume the owner is a man?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

• 다고 - indirect quotation

주인은 거짓말 한다고 했어요 - The owner said that we lied

• 자고 - indirect propositive quotation

주인은 거짓말 하자고 했어요 - The owner told us to lie

• mixed quotation

주인은 말했어요 : "거짓말하자" - The owner said "Let's lie".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TalvirChri

Where is it said, that the owner said smth? I can only translate this as: The owner made a proposal to lie... 8 /


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

That's what I meant.

DLG translation is not acceptable because it's in the form of a direct quote.

~자고 하다 (indirect quote) --> suggest that / suggest to


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sujinssi_007

What is DLG here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

Just my abbreviation for Duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pamela909830

What is a mixed quotation? I know only direct quotation (The owner said that he had lied.) and indirect quotation (The owner said, "I lied.").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ash-Fred

The former is indirect and the latter is direct. I am not sure what a mixed quotation is either, but the colon is not used that way. You may say

  • 주인은 말했어요. "거짓말하자."
  • 주인은 "거짓말하자."라고 말했어요.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

Apologies for confusing everyone.

In this case, we have an indirect quote.

A mixed quote would look something like,

The owner suggested telling a lie, but "just a small white lie".

A mixed quote is an indirect quote that includes some directly quoted expression.

Grateful to be shown how to say this in Korean.

PS: Nice to know you are still keeping an eye on us, Ash-Fred.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pamela909830

Thank you, Ash-Fred! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/heningar

I was going to ask about this. Thank you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VIXX_LuvMyself

I'm sorry but could I ask why's the translation of the following: 주인은 거짓말 한다고 했어요=> The owner said that we lied? For me, it seems more like "The owner said that he lied"...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

yes.

주인은 거짓말 '한다고' 했어요= The owner said that he lied/was lying

주인은 우리가 거짓말을 '한다고' 말했다. = The owner said that we lied/were lying

주인은 거짓말 '하자고' 했어요= The owner suggested (하자 = Let's/let us do) telling a lie.

Where did you see "~다고" been used?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VIXX_LuvMyself

Thanks as always!

I saw it in your explanation above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ash-Fred

We no longer accept translations in the form of a direct quotation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pamela909830

Oh! I was surprised because the answer used to be The owner said Let's lie. I had no idea that your rules had changed. A warning would have been helpful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OKAMOTO_Yusuke

"The owner said let's tell a lie" would be a correct alternative. Posted on Dec. 17, 2017.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikRed1

That wouldn't make sense unless you were directly quoting


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LukeMadhan

고짓말을 - is the 말 the same as in to speak?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

Correct.

말 (noun) = word

말 (“word”) +‎ 하다 (“to do”) --> 말하다 (verb) = speak, talk

거짓 ("untruth") 말 ("word") = untrue word = lie (noun)

Note:

"을" in 거짓말을 is a marker to indicate the noun "거짓말" is a direct object complement (often described as "Object" to contrast with "Subject" in a sentence.).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Angemony

I don't understand this new translation. 'The owner said let's lie' was the accepted translation when I learned this, and now it's wrong? I don't feel like there's a significant enough difference in meaning to warrant the specific wording of 'suggested telling a lie'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

DLG wishes to stress that 자고 하다 is one of the 4 forms used in indirect quotation, i.e. when one wishes to relay only the gist (not word-for-word) of what someone else has said.

자고 하다 indicates what was said was a suggestion or proposition.

The owner said/suggested "let's lie" => direct quotation = 주인이「거짓말 하자」'하고' (제안)했어요.

The owner suggested (to us) to tell/telling a lie => indirect quotation = 주인이 거짓말 하'자고' (제안)했어요.

In speech, people do tend to ignore grammatical rules and end up with a form of mixed quotation i.e. where an indirect quotation is made to sound like a direct one although it might bear no exact resemblance to the original words.

So DLG's original translation might be viewed as a mixed quotation, for colloquial use. The one shown now is the grammatically correct version of an indirect quotation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/soobee620

Yesǃ This happened to me, tooǃ


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

The amendment was announced a month ago. ref. Ash-Fred.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BackBandy

Isn't 주인 need to be 주인님? And also 말하셨어요 is better I think. or just change as 친구.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Haru_Kanzaki

feel the 주인 you are talking about would be "master". Correct me if i am erong, but i feel that you are not the one being owned when you say owner. the sentence doesnt specify what the owner owns, but if you say he owns the house that you are living in, we tend to call them 집주인, which roughly translates to house owner.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TomTheSailor

Seems "The owner suggested we lie" would also be a good translation but I did not try it to see if it would be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

It depends what "we" meant.

▪If 'we' stands for all parties involved including the suggestor himself (the owner) then, yes. [=> to suggest + v-ing]

The owner suggested telling a lie = the owner suggested to us to lie (together with him) = 주인은 (우리에게 함께) 거짓말을 하자 했다.

However,

▪If 'we' does not include the suggestor, but just the speaker and the addressee(s) then, no.

In this case, the recommendation made to another party('ies') besides oneself, is akin to a polite instruction [=> to suggest that]

The owner suggested that we (you and me) lie = the owner told us to tell a lie = "주인은 우리에게 거짓말을 하라고 했다."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TalvirChri

Common Russian owner)))))))))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KevinAD3

At least he's honest about it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/soobee620

So 하다 can also mean "say"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

In quotes (direct & indirect), yes. —고 하다 can roughly be understood as "say/say that" ( or any communication or cognition verbs*, depending on context. ).

Most Korean communication and cognition verbs are in the form of N하다. 하다 is just an abbreviation.

• Direct quote: 라고 하다 = say "..."

• Indirect quote:

[Declarative sentence] 다고/(이)라고 하다 = say (that) [...]

[Interrogative sentence]냐고 하다 = ask (that) [...]

[Propositive sentence]자고 하다 = suggest (that) [...]

[Imperative sentence] (으)라고 하다 = order (that) [...]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John218939

Good summary and comments. Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterNordq

"The owner suggested to tell a lie. " is correct English and seems closer to the Korean.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oee16

There are 4 correct ways to use "suggest" [Cambridge dict.]

▪ suggest + noun phrase

▪ suggest + (that)-clause

▪ suggest + v-ing

▪ suggest + question words/ interrogative conjunction: who (with whom and whose), what, where, when, why, . . . and how.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KungKras

The owner said lets lie should be accepted

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